I get one right?

I think he's checkcalling without an ace. Only way he's betting is if he hits his two outer for a higher full house.

[Lmn55d]

Whoa, I Would bet the turn for sure. A lot of guys with TAG stats in this game play v. badly. He will often pay you off with a lower pocket pair and just doesn't want to get raised and put to a tough decision. If he has KJ, checking is only going to help you if he pairs up on the river. THere is more value in getting him to call you down with a lower pocket pair.

I guess there's an argument that he has 66 or the like and will check/fold the turn but would check/call the river if you checked the turn. But if he's good and he knows you're good he probably should check/fold the river even if you check the turn.

If you know he would never check a lower pocket pair here on the turn, intending to call, then by all means check it. If he doesn't know you're a good TAG, and instead for some reason thinks you're an aggro lag (not that unlikely), I could see him checking to get to showdown cheap.

[surfdoc]

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What are you doing checking the turn? I don't agree with that at all. You will get calls from many pocket pairs and are only behind to the case 2 or AA. Why didn't you bet?

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See. It is starting already. This guy is a good player. He knows that I know he is a good player. You don't think he finds a fold with 66 here?

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will he call the river with it tho, when another overcard falls and you bet? you are also giving him a free card to a 3 outter (yeah I know, not much, but still).

if hes going to give up, you might as well make him fold now. The reason I would like it is if he has KJ or something, that way he can catch on the river

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This is getting to what I was trying to do. Just a couple of points and questions though. Lets assume he is thinking a bit about my hand. When he 3 bets preflop and leads an A22 flop what can I hold to just call? Should I peel that flop with 2 broadway cards and no Ace? Will he call the turn and river both with a hand like 55-TT?

How did you come up with 3 outs? I think he has 2 outs almost always (the 4th duece will not be an out for him because then I will have the stone nuts with my Ace right?) and is drawing to perfect/perfect the rest of the time with KQ,KJ mamybe QJs type of hands.

I think he will call my river bet with K high a lot and if he is unfortunate enough to catch a pair to his broadway card he will almost always lose 2 more bets when he value bets and pays off my raise.

Preflop is not standard for me either. I mix it up from the CO and usually prefer a better kicker but this game had some thinkers in it so I was trying to mix things up a bit pre and postflop.

BTW, this specific turn card changed the hand a bit but I was planning on checking any turn card.

[spamuell]

You might as well bet. He's probably got a worse hand whether it's a pair or K-high and has decided either he's going to pay off one bet on either the turn or river but if you bet both then fold the river, or that he's going to call down. As you don't know which, just bet and hope it's the latter so you can collect 2 bets instead of one.

I don't think it's worth checking the turn to induce a river call as I doubt you're going to collect a call on the river from a hand that would have folded if you'd bet the turn very often at all because he's going to be suspicious and expect you to bet the turn a lot of the time so he's unlikely to just check-fold it.

[Alobar]

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What are you doing checking the turn? I don't agree with that at all. You will get calls from many pocket pairs and are only behind to the case 2 or AA. Why didn't you bet?

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See. It is starting already. This guy is a good player. He knows that I know he is a good player. You don't think he finds a fold with 66 here?

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will he call the river with it tho, when another overcard falls and you bet? you are also giving him a free card to a 3 outter (yeah I know, not much, but still).

if hes going to give up, you might as well make him fold now. The reason I would like it is if he has KJ or something, that way he can catch on the river

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This is getting to what I was trying to do. Just a couple of points and questions though. Lets assume he is thinking a bit about my hand. When he 3 bets preflop and leads an A22 flop what can I hold to just call? Should I peel that flop with 2 broadway cards and no Ace? Will he call the turn and river both with a hand like 55-TT?

How did you come up with 3 outs? I think he has 2 outs almost always (the 4th duece will not be an out for him because then I will have the stone nuts with my Ace right?) and is drawing to perfect/perfect the rest of the time with KQ,KJ mamybe QJs type of hands.

I think he will call my river bet with K high a lot and if he is unfortunate enough to catch a pair to his broadway card he will almost always lose 2 more bets when he value bets and pays off my raise.

Preflop is not standard for me either. I mix it up from the CO and usually prefer a better kicker but this game had some thinkers in it so I was trying to mix things up a bit pre and postflop.

BTW, this specific turn card changed the hand a bit but I was planning on checking any turn card.

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well his 3rd out (the 2) is to a split pot, youd both have 2222A.

I think a lot of it comes down to how he plays a PP on the turn. Is he giving up because you called an A22 flop, or is he intending to call down, and is just checking out of fear? Also, would he even check this smae pocket pair? He could easily have TT and doesnt want to face a raise, and knows you are aggresive and will bet your 55 when he checks to you. Also, given his hand range, what is more likely, a PP or KQ/J type hand? Hes not going to catch his 6 outter that often, so I think there is more value in getting 2 bets out of a PP that calls down, than out of 1 when he catches or decides to pay off with K high (is that even likely tho?)

and then to river raise if he bets. I dont like it. You have him pegged as a good player, he should be smart enough not to call your river raise with 66, as its pretty obvious what you did. It also really backfires when he 3 bets you because he was trying to outhtink you on the turn with AA, or caught his 2 outter on the river. It might be worth it if it was a K, as then he would definately call with his K hands hoping for a split, but I think on most rivers im just callhing his ber, and I wouldnt lead a K river if I was him, even if I hit it

[Lmn55d]

one more thing. I think a lot of TAGs in this game are very fearful of being exploited here by another tag who calls the flop without an ace looking to knock hero off of his pocket pair. TAGs know and fear this, and thus I think it is pretty rare that one folds a pocket pair here.

[DeathDonkey]

I like the check. If he is good you will have a hard time getting a bet either way, but more chance this way. I'm shocked so many decent players in this thread would call down with any pocket pair here. If you have KQ for example that's about the worst flop in the world for you and peeling would be pretty dumb.

-DeathDonkey

[Lmn55d]

if you could peel one sb with KQ, knowing that your tag opponent will fold any pocket pair, wouldn't it be worth it? I'm not saying it's correct to peel this flop, but this is something to think about. Checkraising the turn with big aces can counter this. I have a strong suspicion, however, that a lot of TAGs in this game feel they must call down to counter it.

[flawless_victory]

PF raise is too loose and i hate that turn check in this game... i am positive he is calling u down w/ JJ, you are missing out on free money here.

[surfdoc]

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if you could peel one sb with KQ, knowing that your tag opponent will fold any pocket pair, wouldn't it be worth it? I'm not saying it's correct to peel this flop, but this is something to think about. Checkraising the turn with big aces can counter this. I have a strong suspicion, however, that a lot of TAGs in this game feel they must call down to counter it.

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If he has a big Ace and the turn does not put 3 on board wouldn't you agree that a CR is by far and away his best play?