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  #11  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:17 PM
KramerTM KramerTM is offline
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Default Re: 15/30 AK

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop offers 12:1 on a call. QT and JT aren't going anywhere peeps.

[/ QUOTE ]

This reasoning is flawed on three levels:

1) You can't assume your opponents think like you do.
2) Since when does this make it not correct to charge them for their draws? Them making a correct call if you were to raise DOES NOT mmake it incorrect to raise.
3) Weaker Kings should also be charged to draw here
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  #12  
Old 12-23-2005, 07:18 PM
Entity Entity is offline
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Default Re: 15/30 AK

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop offers 12:1 on a call. QT and JT aren't going anywhere peeps.

[/ QUOTE ]

This reasoning is flawed on three levels:

1) You can't assume your opponents think like you do.
2) Since when does this make it not correct to charge them for their draws? Them making a correct call if you were to raise DOES NOT mmake it incorrect to raise.
3) Weaker Kings should also be charged to draw here

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with any of that. But against UTG+1 + the field's range you're making more money on a turn raise.

It's hand protection+value and you satisfy both with a turn raise.

Rob
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  #13  
Old 12-24-2005, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: 15/30 AK

[ QUOTE ]

I hate calling down here but I do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

and FWIW

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop is terrible

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #14  
Old 12-24-2005, 03:47 PM
DMBFan23 DMBFan23 is offline
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Default Re: 15/30 AK

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop offers 12:1 on a call. QT and JT aren't going anywhere peeps.

Calling and raising the turn offers 8:1 and gets more money in against KQ etc when the wayyyyyyyy averaggro dude has that.

I hate calling down here but I do it. That guy usually has 99/K9s here but AQd, AJd, even KQs and obviously a chop are enough of a consideration that I'm seeing a showdown unless one of the people raises behind me, especially on a diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds good to me except for the bolded part, I've never seen this type of move in a multiway pot with these. granted I haven't played that much poker (maybe 100K hands total?)

Jason are these stats all from full ring at 15/30? if they were 10/20 SH stats and he was stepping up, he'd actually be a much tougher opponent than his stats would indicate
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  #15  
Old 12-24-2005, 05:06 PM
jason_t jason_t is offline
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Default Re: 15/30 AK

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop offers 12:1 on a call. QT and JT aren't going anywhere peeps.

Calling and raising the turn offers 8:1 and gets more money in against KQ etc when the wayyyyyyyy averaggro dude has that.

I hate calling down here but I do it. That guy usually has 99/K9s here but AQd, AJd, even KQs and obviously a chop are enough of a consideration that I'm seeing a showdown unless one of the people raises behind me, especially on a diamond.

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds good to me except for the bolded part, I've never seen this type of move in a multiway pot with these. granted I haven't played that much poker (maybe 100K hands total?)

Jason are these stats all from full ring at 15/30? if they were 10/20 SH stats and he was stepping up, he'd actually be a much tougher opponent than his stats would indicate

[/ QUOTE ]

They are mined 10/20 full-ring stats.
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  #16  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:51 PM
MrEngenic MrEngenic is offline
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Default Re: 15/30 AK

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not as good as waiting for the turn, but it's not "terrible".
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