Weird online/live dichotomy

[coffeecrazy1]

Live: I am a solid player. I do not get bored or restless playing TAG. I make smart decisions most of the time. I have a fairly good defense against tilt. I'm usually able to shrug off beats, confident that I played the hand correctly, or usually, blaming myself for improper play of the hand, resolving to learn from the mistake(most recently, learning to count the pot before blindly betting the turn).

Online: I am the worst aspects of LAG and LAP. I have no self-control, and I cannot wait for the next hand to be dealt. I get my money all-in with the best hand, and am fully expecting to lose. I am prone to massive tilt, sitting down in larger games to recoup losses at smaller ones. I have broken at least three coffee cups, a mirror, and dented my wall throwing things after bad beats or "bad" beats or just unlucky deals(pp vs. higher pp when I'm short-stacked, etc.).

It just seems like I'm two different people when I play the two mediums. Thankfully, I've recognized that there is at least a problem, and I tend to stay away from the online game and beat the live one, but last night I was iced in, and proceeded to drop $100 in about an hour of playing low limit games.

Just variance? I'm sure it is. Could I have just as easily won? I suppose, but after it was all said and done, and I had stopped cursing at the top of my lungs, I had time to reflect that I bought in expecting to lose.

Any thoughts, other than maybe the online thing's not for me?

Maybe just being in front of a computer instead of at the casino makes you distracted, anxious, on tilt. Do you do a lot of other things while playing online, like check e-mail and 2+2? This always drives my results down. Do you multi-table? Some people can do eight tables no problem. Me, I max out around three.

Also, players online tend to be trickier and looser than in a casino. Players online bluff more and go to the river more. Is your casino game sharp because you're good at picking up tells that you can't get online? I don't think it's variance if you're noticing a distinct performance drop from live to online play.

Don't know...maybe take a break from online play for a while and re-evaluate your play. Post some hands here for analysis. I read Internet Texas Hold'em by Hilger, and it's pretty good for exploring the different strategies needed for playing online compared to live. Sorry about your coffee cups.

ScottieK

[idrinkcoors]

I am just the same coffee, which is why I also try to stay away from online play.

My theory is that in a casino, social instincts take over. In other words, you can't get away with throwing a coffee mug in a casino, so you end up thinking straight and normal and play better poker. Plus you don't want to look like an idiot in front of others, (even though they are strangers), so you avoid tilt.
My game is much better live. Maybe it's because it's harder to throw in five dollar chips than it is to press a "Call" button. I don't know.

[Riverman]

Funny Story. I have a good friend who is an excellent B+M player, but horrible online for the same reasons you describe. One night in college we were in a computer cluster supposedly doing a paper for a class we were in, but he fires up the online poker. After about 40 mins, he suddenly picks up a chair and hurls it across the room against the wall (with about 6-8 kids in there working).

I also know a guy who has ruined 3 computer monitors, although he is banned from both the borgata and taj in AC.

I guess I'm just saying youre not the only one, I would try playing tourneys online to reduce the threat to your bankroll.

[onegymrat]

Hi Coffee,

Your concern is exactly what I was debating with a friend about. The difference between live and online play can be night and day, although the rules of the game are the same.

In live play, there is a human element. The touch and feel of the cards, the act of seeing your chips go into the pot, the visual impact of seeing your stacks of chips go up and down. There's also the psychological effect that is shown in physical form, such as tells, nervous twitches, etc. The opportunity to see an opponent(s)' face when you check-raise them on the turn. The interaction with other players is also a huge element. You have to keep control of your emotions. Also, with the 35/hands per hour that you get, there's plenty of time to lament on how the last hand was played/should have been played.

When you are online, the hands come twice as fast. There's little time to think about your hands. There's no visual heartache of seeing your stacks dwindle. You don't have the physical and emotional influences of having "chips", since you never got to touch/hold them to begin with. Your score is merely a number, which goes up and down, like points in Tetris. There's little to control physically, because you don't have to worry about tells, nor can you rely on other's tells. You don't need to fumble with chips, worrying about getting the correct amount or keeping your hands from shaking, you just need to click a 1/4 inch to the right with your cursor. And because of the non-human elements, this is much more like a video game.

And because of that (the video game effect), it's "easier" to play loose/poor because there's little time to think about it and you don't have to worry about the physical effects that live play has on you. That's why most players will play lower limits online than live. How many times have we heard that "Live play I would fold, but online I would call/raise"? You're expect to play looser and/or more reckless. Although it doesn't make it right.

Poor impulse control. Online there is no social stigma to acting like an idiot so you get more smack talk and eventually your swearing over a bad beat can grow to stupid physical outbursts that do nothing but cost you more money. In real life if you tell someone to do something physically impossible because they out drew you they are likely to pop you one in the mouth, or you are likely to be punished by the floor. No such thing on-line.

If you lack the maturity and self control to play poker online then don't. Yelling at the top of your lungs is not self control or maturity and is something you know you would never do in real life. You can't let just a little Phil Hellmuth into your game, once you start acting like an idiot your only hope of not going all the way is someone telling you to shut the hell up.

[coffeecrazy1]

It's a fair point, and pretty much the conclusion I've come to, as well.

I'm actually a fairly soft-spoken guy, which is why the loud outbursts have been so troubling. Thankfully, I live by myself, but I don't like hearing myself say the words I'm using, either.

Note: I never insult someone's play, online or live. I am very careful not to be a table captain. So...there's that...but the other stuff is equally bad...I'm not rationalizing...just trying to say that I'm not in there educating fish.

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]
I get my money all-in with the best hand, and am fully expecting to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have this same feeling when I am running bad on Party, Stars or Paradise. It seems like whenever you have a great winning day on those sites, they turn on the doom switch to get you. That is why it is a realistic feeling, and when you lose your stack 3 times in a row in a session with AA going all-in with the best of it, it is clear.

On the other servers, when I get my money in with the best hand, I feel good.

I wish I had a better solution than calling you a ninny but I haven't had the same problem you have so I'm a little in the dark. The last 4 days I've played I've had two 100+BB loss sessions and didn't break anything. I did go and look at the worst tables during that run and see that I was playing really, really bad. Much worse than I thought during the games. I had just moved to .5/1 and had been 4 tabling which worked great when the tables are running well but not so good when one or two is hurting so I decided to only 3 table for a while. I also set some limits on how long I would stay at a table, winning or losing.

Maybe it is a matter of realizing that the losses are as much my fault as the other guy's fault? I can't change the way they play, but I can change the way I play. Maybe it is because I've got the right bank roll and am still up for the month. Maybe you should play lower limits on-line where losing 20BB isn't so frustrating and the game is fun again.

The nice thing about online playing is that you have so much private space available usually. If you find yourself making the same dumb mistakes; I was raising with 2nd pair in EP on the turn before seeing what anyone else would do, dumb almost always, make a note not to do that and stick it to your monitor or the wall or wherever you will see it a lot.