red 88...play along with me

[PokerBob]

Canterbury 15/30 9 handed
UTG+1 is the only decent player in the game. UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, UTG+2 limps, 1 fold, 2 more limpers to me on the button with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I......state what you do and why.

[imported_stealthcow]

you gotta raise. you're getting somewhere between 6-7 to 1 and dont need much more to get odds to raise for equity along. include your postflop edge, and you should raise it up. also, making the pot bigger on the flop will occasionally make it okay for you to draw again on the flop where if you just limp you wont have the odds.

stealthcow-

[Entity]

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also, making the pot bigger on the flop will occasionally make it okay for you to draw again on the flop where if you just limp you wont have the odds.

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Why is that a good thing? I don't disagree with a raise here but I really don't like it when people post that you should bloat the pot preflop so that you help yourself find the turn.

Rob

[imported_stealthcow]

to be 100% honest, the idea of bloating the pot has been one of the things i have planned on looking into if its worth it or not in terms of increasing your equity becuase you'll be in fighting for a pot that you normally wouldn't be in. so i haven't done the math yet, but i think* it is either a completely =ev play that only increases your variance, or slightly +ev. but that doesn't include the amount of times both blinds fold, blanks flop and your continuation bet narrows down the field. ( although thats rare as well, and pretty slight if the opponents are as i suspect)

stealthcow-

when I think about "bloating the pot", the first thing I consider is the opponents I am up against. The whole idea of bloating the pot is to induce people to chase on weak hands/draws that they wouldnt chase in a smaller pot. But if you are against a bunch of bad players who are going to chase with these same hands regardless of the pot size then theres less incentive to raise. So the worse the players are the less likely I will raise 88 in this specific situation, and the better they are the more likely Im building the pot with a raise. Also if I am convinced that the table will always check to the raiser postflop, then I would probably raise it up since the EV difference between raising and calling is close to zero, raising becomes better becuz you get to see 4 cards (if you chose to take a free card) instead of 3 cards. With no reads on the table I would probably just call.

[Victor]

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to be 100% honest, the idea of bloating the pot has been one of the things i have planned on looking into if its worth it or not in terms of increasing your equity

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its not worth it. common fallacy tho.

sometimes when im bluff 3bet the pot is so big that its worth it for me to bluff 5bet, then i might as well bluff 7bet and eventually the pot is so big that i figure i oughta call with my queen high. ya know, cuz i made the pot huge.

sometimes im getting 10:1 on the flop with a gutterball but i know i wont be getting very good odds on the turn and i really wanna see the river so i just go ahead an cap it out on the flop so i can see the river bc i hate folding and i should win like every pot.

[Joe Tall]

Sometimes I limp, most of the time I raise. It's a great time to mix up your play in an EV neutral situation.

[Entity]

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Sometimes I limp, most of the time I raise. It's a great time to mix up your play in an EV neutral situation.

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FWIW, I think I'm almost exactly the opposite. Of course, this is online. Live I think I'd be more inclined to raise and online I'm more inclined to limp -- I'm probably about 75/25 limping/raising here.

Rob

[NLSoldier]

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Sometimes I limp, most of the time I raise. It's a great time to mix up your play in an EV neutral situation.

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[Surfbullet]

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Sometimes I limp, most of the time I raise. It's a great time to mix up your play in an EV neutral situation.

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Me2. what's the flop? maybe you flopped a set! That'd be awesome.

Surf