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  #1  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:07 PM
Solitare Solitare is offline
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Default KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

Party $50 MTT, Blinds at 100/200. I think the chip ave was around 3500 at this point.

Hero in MP with 5000
CO at 5088
SB at 3748

With KK I raise to 700. CO calls. SB reraises to 2000.
I go all-in. CO calls and the SB folds.

CO has an AKo and I lose when an Axx flops.

I didn't have a problem pushing here. My thinking was that the SB could have other hands besides AA, with KK, QQ being the other big possibilities, and maybe AKs and AK, with a lesser possibility of JJ and TT. I gave myself at least a 50% chance of being ahead here. I also hope to increase the chances of a fold from the CO by pushing.

The question I have is whether calling the SB's reraise would have made any sense. The idea is survival. It's very likely that at least one of these guys has an Ace. So let's see the flop, and if there is no Ace, then push. (Had I done that here, I'd lose the hand but still have 3000 chips and remain very alive in the tournament)

Of course the downside to calling is that it lets both the CO and SB see a flop which they may hit in some other bad way for me (the SB did fold). Plus possibly losing the chance to get bad pre-flop calls by inferior hands (like the CO did).

So is calling an option here to help avoide the results of this hand? Or just forget about the results oriented over-analysis and push away?
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

He had 3 outs, you're push was 100% correct. Do you want him to fold when an ace doesnt hit the majority of the time? Get all of his chips now.
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  #3  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

very results oriented, sorry if this sounds overly simple, but.. you have KK in your hand, push and be thrilled to see your opponent's hands
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  #4  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:13 PM
TheBlueMonster TheBlueMonster is offline
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

survival? nah...
You always want to get all your money in with a KK vs. AK type hand. You're such a huge favorite there's no reason to do anything but push. Just calling (and for so many chips!) cause you're afraid of the tiny possibility of an Ace hitting is just the epitome of weak-tight.
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

Hint: KK loses to A-x more often than it statistically should on Party. Try a new site.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:44 PM
tshak tshak is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

[ QUOTE ]
Hint: KK loses to A-x more often than it statistically should on Party. Try a new site.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope this was posted with the utmost sarcasm.
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:46 PM
rockythecat99 rockythecat99 is offline
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

Results oriented thinking. There is no other play than to push here.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2005, 10:54 PM
yvesaint yvesaint is offline
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

i still dont understand why you would want CO to fold AKo to your KK pre-flop

you do realize you have the better hand, he is drawing to about 3 outs?

sheesh
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2005, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

you did the right thing by pushing here, he had a maximum of 3 outs to beat you, and if you consider the possibility of someone throwing away Ax to your raise he has less than 3 outs.pretty much the same exact play happened to me recently.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2005, 11:10 PM
bholdr bholdr is offline
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Default Re: KK -- Call Reraise To Minimize Risk of Losing to Ace on Flop?

There is no reason at all to flat call. almost...

others have said that the main reason is because you likely have him dominated, and want to get your chips in while you have a huge equity advantage... that's true, but that's not the only reason: do you really think you could or even should fold if you called the raise, an ace flopped, and he pushed?

the pot would be about 4500, his push around 1700... could you ever be 70% sure that he hit a 3 outer and isn't just pushing because he's comitted either way? that's kind of a cash game kind of line of reasoning, but i think it holds here... i would only call if i thought he was capable of folding to a push, and i would plan on going all in on the flop no matter what hit. which might happen if he's just donk-bluffing your initial biig raise when right on the bubble or something, i suppose... nah... just push, for lots of reasons... all IMHO, of course.
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