Huge pot, big action, catch part of the flop - who lays this down?

topspin · #1 08-28-2004, 12:45 AM

I hate this hand. The pot seemed big on all streets and the fact that I caught a decent part of the flop made me feel trapped. Pre-flop feels ok to me, but I really wonder if I should have folded somewhere along the flop or turn.

Paradise Poker 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG caps, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (26 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

It's 33SB when it gets to me the first time on the flop. With so many people in I have no idea what I'm up against; assuming no set I probably have 6 live outs and a backdoor flush draw; pot odds of 1:6.7 make calling 2SB pretty easy. For some reason I opt to raise instead, vaguely thinking that with some good draws and 5 other people in the pot, I have pot equity.

Turn: (23 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls (All-In), MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero ???

I really don't want to fold this here since the pot is getting huge and I figure to have at least some live outs ... 5 if someone's pushing 2-pair, and a measly 2 if someone's hit the set of 7's. It's 2 bets and 29BB to me at this point, but I may have to face another cap on the turn after I call.

Call/fold?

LowDown22 · #2 08-28-2004, 12:51 AM

Hard to give up on such a big pot, but I fold here. MP2 just came alive so I put him on a 7. SB looks to have a big PP. I think you've got 2 outs best case, and you don't have odds for that.

btspider · #3 08-28-2004, 08:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hard to give up on such a big pot, but I fold here. MP2 just came alive so I put him on a 7. SB looks to have a big PP. I think you've got 2 outs best case, and you don't have odds for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.
and UTG didn't limp-reraise with rockets.
and MP1 probably has a moderate holding and went for the all-in.

topspin · #4 08-28-2004, 09:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hard to give up on such a big pot, but I fold here. MP2 just came alive so I put him on a 7. SB looks to have a big PP. I think you've got 2 outs best case, and you don't have odds for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that in a smaller pot, I would have instantly folded. My worries were that (1) this being micro, and with raises coming from all over, it wasn't certain that anyone had hit the trips, and (2) I probably have some good implied odds here given that so many people are capping all the way.

Now that it's over, I do have time to run the math, and I was evidently wrong about the implied odds: even assuming everyone caps the turn and caps the river if I hit another Q, that's 32BB + pot of 23BB, or 55BB. I'll have to put in 4BB on the turn, so I'm only getting odds of a bit worse that 1:14, when I need 1:22 to hit my full house.

At the time I didn't put anyone on a x7 unless it was 97s given caps pre-flop and on the flop, and I figured 97s would have come out betting once the flop hit. In my mind (perhaps wrongly, for micro), I was figuring the opposition more for big PPs. MP2 was really throwing me for a loop since I had no idea what he could have had that was worth passively calling those two caps that would improve dramatically given one more 7.

topspin · #5 08-28-2004, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hard to give up on such a big pot, but I fold here. MP2 just came alive so I put him on a 7. SB looks to have a big PP. I think you've got 2 outs best case, and you don't have odds for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.
and UTG didn't limp-reraise with rockets.
and MP1 probably has a moderate holding and went for the all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, upon reflection that does seem like the better play now. I got sucked into calling because I couldn't bring myself to fold into such a big pot.

Would you have played the flop differently? The situation is similar (big pot, lots of raising) and there's a chance I'm also drawing pretty slim to someone's trips already. (I suppose I get better implied odds here than the turn, though.)

I'll post what everyone had shortly. I was pretty shocked though.

btspider · #6 08-28-2004, 11:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would you have played the flop differently? The situation is similar (big pot, lots of raising) and there's a chance I'm also drawing pretty slim to someone's trips already. (I suppose I get better implied odds here than the turn, though.)

I'll post what everyone had shortly. I was pretty shocked though.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like the flop 3-bet, especially since you have position. you want people to slow down here. its like an anti-slowplay move. sometimes the action is still heavy, but sometimes you'll get through the turn for only 1 bet.

if these guys are routinely this crazy, just wait for a better hand to showdown.

topspin · #7 08-28-2004, 01:25 PM

Paradise Poker 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG caps, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (26 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (23 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls (All-in), MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (34.60 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, MP2 calls (All-in), MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 49.10 BB

Results:
SB shows Ad 6d (two pair, queens and sevens).
MP1 shows As Js (two pair, queens and sevens).
MP2 shows 3d 7c (full house, sevens full of queens).
MP3 shows Th Td (two pair, queens and tens).
Hero shows Qc Jc (full house, queens full of sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 49.10 BB.

Not proud of my suck out, but also pretty surprised by what everyone else had.

Sent · #8 08-28-2004, 01:32 PM

Wow buncha crazies there. SB 3-betting with nothing. Guy called a raise with 73o lol.

-Sent

topspin · #9 08-28-2004, 01:48 PM

Gotta love the Friday night crowd [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]