Why was DERB even a surprise to anyone?

[FatalError]

I left the limit hold'em scene when i hit 30-60 to go to NL, i now play the NL version of this DERB limit strategy those f'ing slovenians or whatever former USSR country developed. What i don't get is why there was such a long struggle for the majority to understand what he was doing, nobody decided to contact mason or david sklansky, their book is filled with mathematical equations that preety much explain the entire derb playing style.

I kind of railbirded the whole DERB thing a few months back but even then i thought it was obvious he just found a winning LAG strategy for limit.

There are some great minds on this board without a doubt, i'm preety reverent of the skills displayed by people like bicyclekick or dcifrthis. Why aren't the minds on 2+2 developing these strategies? I'm kind of bothered by the concept of these ex-commie governments "buying" 3BB/hr strategies to beat big limit games.

I'll admit i don't have alot to commit to it but would'nt it make sense for you all to get on your horses and start discussing the most profitable way to defend against this new strategy and start to get the money flowing more towards this side ocean?

[Schneids]

I for one have never responded to DERB threads and am not really surprised by his results -- though the magnitude of his success is shocking only in that he is running slightly hot. Notice I say slightly, since he's def a winning player IMO.

[Erik W]

"I left the limit hold'em scene when i hit 30-60 to go to NL, i now play the NL version of this DERB limit strategy"

Comparing limit and NL is like comparing football and american football. In NL the implied odds is completely different and since so few hands go to showdown the psychologic side of the game is much more important, etc etc etc

Tons of players have tried playing twice a tight TAG vpip before but none have succeeded that is why the interest is at is when a player crushs the game with a new winning style.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
I for one have never responded to DERB threads and am not really surprised by his results -- though the magnitude of his success is shocking only in that he is running slightly hot. Notice I say slightly, since he's def a winning player IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find the DERB thread interesting, because there are clearly benefits of playing hands aggressively. Many of the hands he is adding may well be slightly profitable and even the ones that are not are probably just barely not profitable. The one thing that surprises me is that people say he raises a lot in EP with quite weak hands; this only makes sense to me if he has a lot of fold equity postflop from this kind of play. Maybe some inexperienced and/or weak players haven't observed these loose standards.

But the other thing that surprises me is that some of his plays, taken in isolation, look horribly bad. Calldowns with A-high when the action indicates that opponent has solid values, almost certainly TPTK or better. Do you think it is likely that these plays are made because DERB (1) has a read that the other player might be playing back with nothing b/c of DERB's image and/or LAG-induced tilt, (2) DERB is trying to encourage a reckless image with a very loose call, or (3) neither of these reasons?

Would you be bold enough to suggest an estimated range for DERB's true winrate?

Can you estimate what affect reducing his VPIP to 25% (but keeping the same postflop style) would do to his true winrate?

Same question with 20% instead of 25%?

Does anyone think DERB is a bigger winner because of the extra hands he is playing than if he weren't playing those hands?

[Teak4]

Wanted to throw-out perhaps a simplistic theory on DERB and the metagame dynamic. What is control of the table worth in limit? Derb's strategy pretty much gaurantee's him control of the table and he gets it just about every time he plays.

The TA approach can get you control of the table occasionally when the right combination of cards, position and opponent type come together. We've all had runs where you can sense that the whole table is reacting and basing their decisions on your action and reacting with caution if not fear. Nice position to be in, but tough to make it happen often or for a sustained period 10 handed playing a typical TA game.

My questions:

How would you quantify the value of controlling the action at a table?

How would you optimize DERB's approach to give away less on questionable plays on individual hands while still controlling the action?

[jason_t]

Slovenia is not a former member of the USSR.

[punter11235]

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now play the NL version of this DERB limit strategy

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Sounds interesting. Btw I wonder why we NL guys dont have our DERB... never run bad guy who is crushing the game day after day and nobody understands why...

[FatalError]

his name is mahatma

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
his name is KKF

[/ QUOTE ]

[FatalError]

nh