typical situation where I'm still an idiot

[mike l.]

didnt look at other posts so hope im not repeating.

you have to call obviously, but how wrong would it be to just give up on the turn? a flop smooth call has to look scary to him. doesnt mean he wont bet the turn, but it will look scary.

another option is check the flop and auto-call turn and river bets. shame to give KJ free cards but when you play against tough players you have to either sacrifice variance and put in bets intending to call raises, or get to showdowns cheaper.

either way: big limits + tough players = get to the showdown. whether you do it timidly and get sucked out on more or aggressively and spew against better hands too often doesnt seem to matter, it's up to you, theyre both valid options. whenever youre in a game where the word "resteal" would come up a lot in a description you have to question whether youre really in the most profitable game you could be in.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Shorthanded game, you raise on button TT. sb 3 bets, you cap. Flop A94 rainbow, and the sb checkraises you. He is an aggressive high stakes player.
What, o, what should my plan be?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any plan that doesn't get you to a showdown against this type of player is a bad one, IMO.

If you were playing against a typical robotic Las Vegas mid-limit B&M player, you could lay this down.

[Danielih]

Depending on the player 3-bet or call down most of the time and still depending on the player fold some small percentage of the time.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have 88 in the SB, how do you proceed? Check-Call down? Check fold somewhere? If SB has 88, I believe if he's commited to showing down checkraising the flop is his best play. For an extra SB he gives Paluka the chance to fold a hand like TT as you say you would in this decent sized pot. He still reserves the right to fold to a turn raise or check fold the river. IMO, the most profitable way to play AK for SB would be to bet out at the Ace high flop. A weak Ace, KK or QQ should just call down. This checkraise smells like a medium pair to me most of the time, maybe a flopped set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it depends a ton (as you suggest in your follow-up post) on my perception of his capping standards, as well as whether how much he tends to push on the big streets. If I assume that he's capping preflop with say AK-AJ, KQ, KJs, ATs, AA-77, then my equity on the flop is about 26%. I'd be getting 2.5:7 if he always bet every street and I always called, which means I'd show a *small* profit from calling (about 0.06 BB), which makes check-folding somewhat unattractive. If his capping range is any tighter than this, I can just check-fold the flop.

Of course, he won't always bet every street, as few opponents play like this at this limit. Against some opponents who tend to check behind a lot on the turn when a scare card hits, I'd peel a bet on the flop and fold if he bets the turn. Against others, I'd call a bet on the flop and probably call again on the turn if say a K or Q didn't come and then check-fold the river, hoping frequently for a free showdown (btw, this is only if I'm playing well/altertly as it takes a fair amount of confidence in order to execute a strategy like that). Against a true LAG, I probably just have to show down my hand unless the board starts to look really undesierable. But I still don't think I have sufficient folding equity against any of these opponents to make a check-raise profitable.

Now, if I'd 3-bet preflop with say T9s, then check-raising becomes more attractive, because my legitimate equity in the pot is quite a bit higher (around 40% against my theorized range of his capping hands), so I don't need as much folding equity to make the play worthwhile. Then I'm thinking about things like whether he's capable of playing back at me with worse hands.

[rigoletto]

It seems to me that 'tough agressive player' gets interpreted by several as one that would bluff a lesser hand than TT through the turn here. Is that really a correct interpretation?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that 'tough agressive player' gets interpreted by several as one that would bluff a lesser hand than TT through the turn here. Is that really a correct interpretation?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. A good tough aggressive player can find better spots than here to make plays at you IMO.

[J.A.Sucker]

Good post, mike l. The only thing is on the internet, I think you just have to suck it up and call it down. The "smooth call looks scary" on the flop is valid in casinos, but not as valid on the net. Just call it down or check the flop and call or raise the turn.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
Good post, mike l. The only thing is on the internet, I think you just have to suck it up and call it down. The "smooth call looks scary" on the flop is valid in casinos, but not as valid on the net. Just call it down or check the flop and call or raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you in the camp where you have to call down tough players in this spot? Consider that Paluka has an image as a good player.

[Peter_rus]

Depending on player i either 3-bet (fold to a cap) or call down and c/r turn (take free SD/fold to 3-bet or to a first bet on river) or simply call to river whatever happens (against overagressive one).

I never fold when my opponent seem thinking. I meet a lot c/r-ses here *especially* after i capped with small pocket pairs and flopped pairs (and i saw this not only against). It's just a 'Check for an ace' or last chance to make to lay down something like 99-QQ (on turn if called on flop) or KQs (on flop).

The only thing that can make fold on flop is im reraised by passive one which is rare as he usually wouldn't 3-bet from SB.

Anyway there is enough money in the pot to bring this hand to SD and i believe you catch enough bluffs from hands that would fold on turn to your bet or fold on flop to your 3-bet. Also don't forget about T that happen on turn or river making you happy another 8% of time.

[Paluka]

One thing that makes me want to fold is that sometimes you call down and catch a "bluff" from JJ, and if KQ is bluffing he still has 6 outs.
I think if you really want to call down, maybe you should 3 bet the flop for a free card. This will save you half a bet, and you can win more when you hit your T. If he caps the flop and leads the turn then it is overwhelmingly likely he has you beat.