Having trouble at 11s and 6s on Party (don't laugh)

[2Fast2Furious]

First, is anyone having trouble loggin into the forum? I always get sent to My Home and have to pull up a new window to login - anyone else having this problem? Citanul, maybe u r trying to tell me something????

Anyway, wanted to know if I'm encountering variance or if I just suck. Have been playing the 6s and 11s the AleoMagnus way (that is, tight early, trying to loosen up a bit in the money, playing super tight on bubble). Ended up 3rd, 4th and 6th last night in the 3 I played. But I'm certainly not EV + and am probably down about $125 in total since I've started - on Sat. I played like 6 STTs and came in first 2x and out of the money the other 4. What's esp. troubling is not just the BBs when you've got QQ and some guy with A2o wins, but more my play on the bubble, where I think I'm too tight. I feel like I'm always going into the final 4-5 with like 800-1100 in chips and the other 3-4 have me covered with like 1200-1800, and then I get super tight and don't play stuff like 22-77, A9s-AJo, etc. So by the time I'm down to 4 I'm usually desperate, and even when I make it ITM I'm so short stacked it's a coin flip and I have to double up like 4x to get 2nd or 1st.

So is this variance/growing pains/playing a little too tight near ITM and not stealing enough blinds with stuff like 55 on the bubble or too hard to tell? I guess I mostly would like to know how long it took the better players on this forum to move up and if they sometimes go back to the 6s and 11s and dominate, or if play is just so random that it's not worth it. Thanks.

[pergesu]

POST HANDS

[GtrHtr]

1) There is no way to say for sure what is going on with you but for sure, your sample size is way too small. That being said, I'd recommend you post some bubble hands to seek feedback. Also examine your HH and look specifically at your pushing and calling standards late in the game.

2) As to the rest of your rant. I've played over 600 11s over the past couple of months. My own variance is similar to yours although I have a positive ROI. The 11s, and I imagine the 5s are, IMO, a unique beast. It really comes down to a couple of things. Most players at the 11s do not know how to play the bubble nor do they understand calling standards as they relate to EV so throughout the game you will sometimes lose a push with QQ or KK to A2o or even QTo thus creating some interesting suckouts. To win $ in the 11s at some point you will need to suckout yourself often more than once which is all about your luckbox.

3) You have to play smart, show patience at the right times and make +EV pushes at the right time from the right position. If that results in you bubbling out, then get used to it and move on.

GTR
who is very much looking forward to moving up a couple of levels

[unfrgvn]

Keep accurate statistics. Number of 11's entered and where you finished. Same with 5's. Analyze your HH's, try to see why you busted. Post hands here. Especially in the 5's, play tight and you will get your monsters paid. People don't respect bets enough at the lower level. You must be aggressive at the end, but don't be afraid to fold a hand and let the others clash.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
...playing super tight on bubble).

[/ QUOTE ]

found it!!!

- you will continue to struggle playing "super tight on bubble" (from an opening standpoint anyway).
- "the bubble" usually mandates that you push with MANY hands that you would not describe as falling within a "tight range". its blind size, stack sizes, position, etc...the 2 cards you're holding may or may not be a primary factor
- pick up the sng power tool package.
- pay particular attention to "should i push this" type threads.
- do a search within this forum on "+bubble", "+push", or "+ICM", within the last month.

[Nicholasp27]

the stats don't matter, but you did identify your problem

you are playing 'super tight' on the bubble, which is the OPPOSITE of how you should play the bubble

you gotta be a smart LAG on the bubble

if the blinds are 20% of ur stack and u are first in pot and u have a decent hand, push

to learn how to know when to push and when to fold, there are two great tools out there:

a) sng power tools - uses icm, bubble stacks, position, blinds, opps' calling range and your hand to determine if a push or fold is better

b) this forum - read the posts about bubble play and pushing/folding hands and read the responses to get a feel of when to push and when to fold and, hopefully, why

[playtitleist]

[ QUOTE ]
Have been playing the 6s and 11s the AleoMagnus way (that is, tight early, trying to loosen up a bit in the money, playing super tight on bubble).

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't help you with the 6s, other than to say if you can possibly completely avoid them, do so.

I am an 11 and 22 player myself. I too held strictly to Aleo's guide. And I too had way too many 4ths. It's the "super-tight" bubble play that will do it to you. At the low buy-ins, most everybody is playing tight at the bubble, because they are just happy to make their money back. Afraid of ending up OOTM. I had a person type "never fails" when I got bounced in 4th recently. That person was the small stack, I caught AQs in the SB, pushed into the BB who had me covered. He called with 66 and it held up. I'll do that everytime, and you know what, more often than not it will fail. For the shorty.

Somewhere among all these posts over the past two months, somebody said "you should have as many fourths as you have firsts." What it means is, be agressive on the bubble. Take advantage of the other players not wanting to OOTM.

Post hands. Read every post for your level and the level above yours.

Oh, and peeps will tell you your sample size is too small. One caveat to that is, you don't have to play 40 SNGs a day to plug a leak. You only played 3 yesterday, but if you plug that leak before you play today, you just save yourself 37 games.

I need to go find those sng powertools. I don't think I'm getting the stats that I need from PT.

PT is great for research and stuff, but I find I'm really lacking "active info" during a SnG.

[Manque]

You want to avoid being blinded down to where you have no folding equity. That usually means pushing in the SB fairly often.

[2Fast2Furious]

thanks - very helpful