Critique this QQ play, please?

#1 07-29-2005, 02:08 AM

UTG+1 seems definitely above average for this limit. Solid, a bit on the aggressive side preflop (24% VP%, raises 1/3 of those). Aggressive post flop. MP1 is a certified LAG, VP% 45, raises with marginal draws, plays K3o and the like from mp.

Please analyze each street. Pretty sure my pre-flop re-raise should have been bigger, for instance, since my purpose in reraising was to drive out callers with low pairs and suited connectors by giving them bad implied odds.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $50, .50 BB (9 handed) converter

MP1 ($66.70)
Hero ($71.40)
MP3 ($61.50)
CO ($92.40)
Button ($48.53)
SB ($31.80)
BB ($49)
UTG ($54.20)
UTG+1 ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $2.5, MP1 calls $2.50, Hero raises to $8, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls $5.50, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($19.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($19.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $2, Hero raises to $9, UTG+1 calls $7.

River: ($37.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $10, UTG+1 calls $10.

Final Pot: $57.25

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Kc Kh (one pair, kings).
Hero has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $57.25. 

Let me know your thoughts. Mine were as follows:

Villain's flop check: too good a player to check AK--I think he stabs at it. JJ, maybe and worried I have an overpair? This is suspicious.

Villain's turn bet of $2: standard trap--wants me to raise, he's planning to reraise. KK or AA for sure.

Villain's river check: Thoroughly confused, I dump my previous read and think maybe I have a shot at this pot, after all. Oops, I still have plenty to learn.

gulebjorn · #2 07-29-2005, 02:18 AM

My thoughts are:
the flop check behind is just bad. Bet 15 or so here. The turn raise is good. The value bet on the river might be bigger ~ 18 or so.

Edit: this isn't how a solid, aggressive player plays KK. Either you messed up your read or he decided to play this hand like a donk. You can't put him on AA or KK based on your read and his betting.

Benholio · #3 07-29-2005, 02:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain's flop check: too good a player to check AK--I think he stabs at it. JJ, maybe and worried I have an overpair? This is suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you re-raised preflop, you now have the betting impetus, and Villain has to be putting you on a big pair, or AK minimum. Whether he thinks he is ahead or not, he is going to check this flop, knowing that you will bet (and you should).

kurto · #4 07-29-2005, 02:27 AM

This is messy. You say one thing and do another.

PF- I think the reraise is fine. To a better then average player, I also don't mind a call. A better then average raising from EP... you have to consider Aces or Kings. Was 5xbb his standard raise? Many players raise more with better hands. Just curious because a lot of people raise 4xbb with one hand and 5xbb with another.
2) The Flop- If you're not just going to call down, you should bet the flop. If he calls, you know he has a pocket pair.
3) You say you think his bet is begging for a raise.... so why do you do it? If you feel he's trapping, don't play into it. I say when he calls your reraise, you're probably beat. (though he may consider you have aces, you're not going to check aces on the flop. I think he knows he has you beat)

4) The river- check behind. And if there's any chance he's folding, he's not doing it for $10. If you were going for a steal, you have to bet more. But checkbehind is better... I think he knows he has you beat and I think you should too.

#5 07-29-2005, 02:28 AM

roflmao. he checked to me because I reraised. Honest to God, that thought never occurred to me. How stupid am I? Thanks.

#6 07-29-2005, 02:31 AM

yeah, it's messy alright. That's why I'm asking for help. Appreciate yours.

RiverFenix · #7 07-29-2005, 02:33 AM

Checking behind isnt the best idea here, I like your river bet. Villian has shown no aggression and you havent shown enough where he can expect a river bet to c/r with. I think when you bet the river its a value bet and you shouldnt fret about his holding.

Next time mask your results please

wall_st · #8 07-29-2005, 02:56 AM

I think you have to bet this flop. If he check raises I am not to hesitant to get it all in here.

TomBrooks · #9 07-29-2005, 02:58 AM

I hate that flop check. Two tone and semi-coordinated for a middle straight. I don't want to give a free card. I don't know how or why you put Villian on AA or KK. I'm betting $10 to $20 here.

#10 07-29-2005, 03:25 AM

To be honest, I think you and the villain both played the hand really terribly. But I guess in a way it was good because you both were utterly confused by the other. Confusing your opponent is always good in poker, especially NL.

If you're going to reraise PF, which I don't mind doing here, I think you should make it 10 to be sure that you push out the limper. Raising PF helps define your opponent's hand. When he just calls PF, I'm figuring him for A-K or an under pair to mine, probably J-J or 10-10.

Checking that flop was just horrible. When he only calls PF, I'm figuring a real high chance of A-K and if they're both clubs, he has a ton of outs. I'm not giving him a free turn to beat my vulnerable Q-Q. If he calls the flop, I probably check the turn, and then call the river, unless something real bad happesn like a fourth club, ace, king, or a huge river bet.

And if I'm you, I definitely check behind on the river. From your comments and the way the two of you played the hand, I get the feeling that by the river neither one of you has a real good read on the hand anymore or what your opponent's hand might be anymore. when I'm in position on my opponent and it's the last street, I check behind when I'm totally confused. What if the guy check raises you all in? You can't call, so why bother betting when you have no idea what's going on anymore? If you think your hand might be the best on the river then just check and see if it is. If you're sure it's not then you can try to go for a bluff, but the thing is, you think your hand might be best, which I would to.