VS a reraise with AK or AQ

[winky51]

Ok here is an interesting situation that I run into everyday and I know all of you do too.

You raise preflop and joe-schmo reraises you. You are now out of position vs a 3 bet. You got AKo or AQ.

Flop misses you totally, all low cards. It most likely missed your opponent.

So when do you call down with just ace high?

My thoughts are basically it depends where you raise from and what typical hands you might get reraised with.

From my experience fish tend to reraise with AK, KK, AA, QQ. Everything else they cold call. So I figure its easier to make a decision vs these types of players. Usually their PFR is 3-5%. Or rocks that raise 5% of the time.

Lets assume a 2/4 or 3/6 table with our bad dude reraiser at around 7-9% PFR. Usually these types of players are average or better. On seemingly safe boards they are betting the flop and turn.

I assume if you raise from EP its an easier laydown since they know you are raising with 99+ AJ, KQ, AQ+. Thus they are reraising with 99+? maybe JJ+, AK.

From MP is where the challenge is. Mayne raising hands in my book from that position I reraise with 99+ AQ+.

Are you more prone to call down with AK when there is 2 flush on the board because your opponent might just have the flush draw like AQs or AKs?

Are their any guidelines for this?

I generally fold if I don't hit anything with AQ or worse. I feel there are not many reraising hands my AQ, ace high, can beat.

I figure with hands like TT or 99 you bet or reraise the 3 better to find out where your at. That way you can get away from the hand cheaper than calling down. Or do you call down on low boards considering position and if his reraising hands are 2 overs or a pair.

It all seems very position oriented. I hate to pay off a KK with my TT or JJ. Or pay off a 99 with my AK all the way.

[lozen]

Its a tough situation. Try this once check out and if he bets raise him. If he 3 bets lay it down. if he just calls bet out on the turn. Just one thought.

I wasn't sure if this was limit or no limit. (i play no limit) On an innocuous flop and you are out of position you get the chance to bet first. If you think there is a good chance your opponennt doesn't have a pp then I think you can bet out these flops sometimes.

For the 3-5% pfr: There is 18 ways to make aa, kk, qq and 16 ways to make ak. You are either tied or losing, and you may want to consider folding preflop with ak, aq.

For 10% pfr: You might want to bet a harmless flop once in awhile as an alternative to calling down.

I don't like calling down with a high myself.

[winky51]

Ive seen that backfire before when you check raise then they raise the turn. But I guess that is still cheaper than calling down bu one small bet.

Now if you get 3 betted with AK can't you call for one more?

Assume 12 SB in the pot and 1 for you to call for the A or K. Most likely the other player doesnt have AA or KK? Or if adding all possible hands its not worth it?

Betting out also has advantages. If they call then raise the turn you save yourself some bets.

If no flush draw on board, (2 cards same suit), I'd lead out with a bet of approx 1/2 to full size of the pot, depending on my read on the guy. If he calls or reraises, he most likely had the board beat, in which case I'd fold to the reraise, or check the turn if I miss that too. If he missed the flop and is either on a draw or hoping to hit an overcard, that size bet should get him to fold a fair amount of the time. That's my way of doing it, which could change tomorrow...:-)

[winky51]

Not NL limit. I know what to do in NL.

[ohnonotthat]

This isn't terrible advice against the nitwits you encounter alot at the lower (and occasionally middle) limits but this approach will get you killed against anyone with a pulse.

Check-fold A/Q if the preflop raisor is anything less than a maniac. Against a maniac check-call the turn no matter what it is - no need to raise without a pair since he won't fold a better hand and no reason to raise when you do hit since he will (or at least might) fold alot of his hands, and check-call the river when you miss while check-raising the river when you hit. Check-raising the turn (when you miss) in an attempt to get him to fold a hand such as J/T is fine but check-calling is the better play the majority of the time.

Check-call A/K on the flop then check-fold MOST of the time when you miss the turn but balance this out by sometimes check-raising the turn when a blank falls as well as by [occasionally] check-calling regardless of whether the turn hits you or not. (Check-calling when you improve is a classic example of why slowplaying does not require a huge hand but does require a hand that is likely to remain in front if it currently is and remain behind if it currently is. If you're up against 9/9 thru Q/Q and you check-call after spiking your hand on the turn you have given up virtually nothing in terms of losing the pot but have probably gained a bet on the river; conversely if your opponent has A/A or K/K and you turn a King you have saved money by check-calling).

A/K is in a different league from A/Q in almost all cases, none moreso than here.

If you apply the above advice to A/Q you will find yourself hitting the turn only to lose too much of the time (A/K, K/K).

BTW, tend to limit your check-raises with nothing to the times when the board is a rainbow on the turn; many of your opponents will "put you on a flush draw" (translation: talk themself into believeing you have one) if there is one and will call you down with any pair.

*

All of the above assumes the flop is ragged; disregard most of it if the flop comes Q-high or even J-high. It will still work some of the time but not often enough to make it worth trying.

*

Whadya know . . . [fairly] concise and most of it was both lucid AND coherent - cool. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ohnonotthat]

This is why we no longer invite him to our game. "Tom, Dick and Harry" formed a voting bloc and made it official. "Joe Schmo" is permanently barred.

It's kind of sad really; we all liked him but those preflop 3-bets were being made with such a wide range of hands he was becoming impossible to beat.

[winky51]

good advise