AKo- Mono Flop TPTK, your turn play?

smokylosecannon · #1 10-20-2005, 03:03 PM

No read on villian, simple fold on turn??? He could be on semi-bluff with FLDR, but I am the pre-flop raiser.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 6 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ?

Borodog · #2 10-20-2005, 03:07 PM

Raise-fold. I would probably check-call a non-club river to induce a bluff from a busted club, and bet-fold any club river.

Pharity · #3 10-20-2005, 03:09 PM

3-bet the flop. Dont you think he can raise you here with a worse hand? I do. Like KQ, KJ, KT, or he might raise with a high club and screw you (free card) on the turn. So 3-bet flop and lead the turn.

Borodog · #4 10-20-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop. Dont you think he can raise you here with a worse hand? I do. Like KQ, KJ, KT, or he might raise with a high club and screw you (free card) on the turn. So 3-bet flop and lead the turn.

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Oh yeah, what he said. You'd HATE to get free-carded on the turn.

Fat Nicky · #5 10-20-2005, 03:15 PM

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Raise-fold.

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Based on the way the hand panned out, yes, raise the turn.

However, being out of position in these situations, checking the turn bring up the threat of your opponent taking a free card. So, I'm not too crazy about the idea of calling the flop raise and check/raising the turn.

Now the question begs, is it better to 3-bet the flop, or donk-bet the turn??? I'm not sure about the answer to this one.

Borodog · #6 10-20-2005, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise-fold.

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Based on the way the hand panned out, yes, raise the turn.

However, being out of position in these situations, checking the turn bring up the threat of your opponent taking a free card. So, I'm not too crazy about the idea of calling the flop raise and check/raising the turn.

Now the question begs, is it better to 3-bet the flop, or donk-bet the turn??? I'm not sure about the answer to this one.

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Yeah, it's been nagging at me too. The problem with 3 betting the flop is that you may be up against a hand that is almost as good as yours (pair + club). If he's the type to limp something like J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something, we're a dog. I think stop & going a safe turn card may be better, but I think 3-betting and leading can't be much worse.

Fat Nicky · #7 10-20-2005, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise-fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on the way the hand panned out, yes, raise the turn.

However, being out of position in these situations, checking the turn bring up the threat of your opponent taking a free card. So, I'm not too crazy about the idea of calling the flop raise and check/raising the turn.

Now the question begs, is it better to 3-bet the flop, or donk-bet the turn??? I'm not sure about the answer to this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's been nagging at me too. The problem with 3 betting the flop is that you may be up against a hand that is almost as good as yours (pair + club). If he's the type to limp something like J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something, we're a dog. I think stop & going a safe turn card may be better, but I think 3-betting and leading can't be much worse.

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Ok, lets say we 3-bet the flop, villain calls and a blank falls on the turn. Now we donkbet and get raised, what's the plan????

Lets say we just call the flop raise, donkbet a blank turn and get raised....is that any different than the previous example.

Vee Quiva · #8 10-20-2005, 03:32 PM

Depends on your objective here. If you are determined to get to the river cheap then I think reraising the flop and leading the turn is best. If he just calls the turn, then check the river and call if it's not a club.

If he raises on the turn again, you're up against the flush and just throw away the hand.

From where you ended up in the hand, I don't think folding is all that bad. The pot's kind of small and you may be drawing close to dead.

Borodog · #9 10-20-2005, 03:53 PM

Discussing with my high-stakes friend and he says that stop & go is terrible here. 3-betting the flop is clearly better. The problem with the stop and go is that it is too hard for Villain to make a mistake.

He also had some surprising thoughts about the bet-call-check line. I'm still thinking.

oxymoron · #10 10-20-2005, 03:55 PM

At this level a lot of people will raise the flop to get a better hand to fold. Not sure why if he had the flush he would raise the flop rather than the turn unless he had a weak flush and was concerned that you have the A of clubs and doesn't want you to catch up. Or he has one high club and wants you to fold or give a free card on the turn.

I like calling the flop raise and betting the turn. If the villian only has a pair and a draw we are ahead. I just don't see how raising the flop and leading the turn is much different than calling and betting the turn other than I would be loosing .5 BB's. If he was trying to get a free card he will just call the turn and if he has a hand he will raise. Against an unknown I would throw the hand away on the turn against another raise.

Edit: Nevermind...I get it now. Okay your saying if we raise the flop and lead the turn we are spending 1.5 BB's to see the river assuming he doesn't reraise the turn. If we call and bet the turn and we are raised we are forced to call 2 BB's to see the river if we want to proceed. Against an unknown I am laying the hand down here and not going to the river in this small pot but I see the difference now.

I like raising the flop and betting the turn if we have an A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or a K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in our hand though and we suspect we are up against a made flush.