That not so fresh feeling

[donger]

I had a friend who plays mostly B&M ask me about this hand. I play mainly 6-max and am rusty at some of these FR concepts, so please help me out, guys.

The things he was most curious about were:

Should I call or cap on the flop?

and if so..

Should I CR the flop or try to CR the turn?

4/8 - La Center, WA

UTG+1 is solid, straightforward pre- post-flop.

MP1 is a doofus who fancies himself 'tricky.' He's rocking oakleys, a soul-patch, and a hat in a 4/8 game.

SB is loose and terrible and has about 5 BBs left after calling preflop.

Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

<font color="red">Hero raises</font> , <font color="red">UTG+1 (solid) 3bets</font>, MP1 (tricky) calls, 4 folds, SB (idiot) calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

FLOP: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks(!), <font color="red">MP1 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

TURN: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, <font color="red">SB 3-bets(almost all-in)</font>, <font color="red">Hero caps</font>, MP1 folds, SB calls (all-in)

[cold_cash]

Not capping pre-flop is giving money away.

I'd raise the flop.

[The Goober]

[ QUOTE ]
Not capping pre-flop is giving money away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. You've got a great hand in a big pot with a good flop - just push it hard. Given your flop check, this is good spot to CR and try to push out UTG+1 with his likely big A. Don't let everyone else catch before you start betting your hand - an overpair is nowhere near strong enough to slowplay here.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]

FLOP: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks(!), <font color="red">MP1 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is pretty bad.

[Nick C]

UTG+1 probably won't fold AK to a flop checkraise (or, in any case, I don't think he should), so if you checkraise there, I think it's primarily for value, though you might also get someone to make a bad fold.

I probably would checkraise the flop, but your plan seems all right to me, and it looks like it worked out for you (unless SB had a big hand and wasn't just stacking off).

Preflop, I think you should 4-bet.

[private joker]

Misplayed on every street. I hate not capping PF in this spot. I detest the check/call, check/raise-the-turn line with an overpair. You're not slowplaying top set; you've got a pair of Ks. Hit it hard on the flop.

Ugh, this is like the guy who limps with AA PF, check-calls to the river, then wakes up and caps when his opponents finally catch up to 2 pair/straight/flush. Then bitches about suckouts.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Misplayed on every street. I hate not capping PF in this spot. I detest the check/call, check/raise-the-turn line with an overpair. You're not slowplaying top set; you've got a pair of Ks. Hit it hard on the flop.

Ugh, this is like the guy who limps with AA PF, check-calls to the river, then wakes up and caps when his opponents finally catch up to 2 pair/straight/flush. Then bitches about suckouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I think that once Hero doesn't cap preflop, the postflop line he took is possibly the best way to protect his hand. Of course, that postflop line may also lose a fair share of value . . .

Really, though, I think we're missing too much value by not capping preflop, so my biggest advice for the hand is to go ahead and make that cap.

Then the logical next step is to lead the flop and go from there.

[donger]

Yeah, everything you guys are saying is pretty much what I told him. The reason to smooth call preflop is to set up a postflop CR and try to drive some people out. I think the way the hand played out, waiting for the turn to CR is way too dangerous. The shitbird with the sunglasses and soul-patch could have been betting the flop, intending to check the turn with any variety of gutshot/backdoor/overcard type hands, and giving a free card to 3 people with just an overpair would be a disaster.

If I had played the hand, I would have probably jammed it preflop, then led the flop, hoping to be raised by UTG+1 to face MP1 and SB with 2 cold on the flop.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
The shitbird with the sunglasses and soul-patch could have been betting the flop, intending to check the turn with any variety of gutshot/backdoor/overcard type hands, and giving a free card to 3 people with just an overpair would be a disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that a turn check-through would be a disaster.

[ QUOTE ]
If I had played the hand, I would have probably jammed it preflop, then led the flop, hoping to be raised by UTG+1 to face MP1 and SB with 2 cold on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a good plan.

If UTG+1 raises, though, I hope he just has AQ. (Given your description of him, I don't really expect him to raise AK.)

[bobhalford]

I would be capping preflop, betting out or check raising the flop...basically betting and raising the whole time. I don't understand why you played this hand the way you did. What are you afraid of? At least you got frisky on the river. What I'm most curious about is...what's a "soul patch"? A tattoo?