I catch my overcard... now what?

Bill Smith · #1 04-07-2005, 03:01 PM

SB is a 73/20 LAGtard. Aggression is pretty high on all streets, especially on the river.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

spydog · #2 04-07-2005, 03:02 PM

Looks good. Unfortunately, LAGtards can catch hands too.

tolbiny · #3 04-07-2005, 03:03 PM

i take the call down/bet the river if checked to line here.

spydog · #4 04-07-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i take the call down/bet the river if checked to line here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's as aggressive as Bill says, I think you have to find a raise somewhere with TPGK.

tolbiny · #5 04-07-2005, 03:20 PM

Why?
On this board, double why?

spydog · #6 04-07-2005, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why?
On this board, double why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why what?

tolbiny · #7 04-07-2005, 03:23 PM

Why raise?
More specifically raise on what street, and why?

philnewall · #8 04-07-2005, 03:12 PM

Raise turn...what's the point in waiting for the river to raise a LAG?

spydog · #9 04-07-2005, 03:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise turn...what's the point in waiting for the river to raise a LAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because a LAG will likely continue betting on the river, so....

1) You extract 1 more bet from a bluff
2) Generally, you are less likely to be 3-bet on the river than the turn.
3) You have the option of calling the river if the board turns scary.

J.R. · #10 04-07-2005, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because a LAG will likely continue betting on the river, so....

1) You extract 1 more bet from a bluff
2) Generally, you are less likely to be 3-bet on the river than the turn.
3) You have the option of calling the river if the board turns scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

but the "L" stands for loose, might he pay off a turn raise and a river bet....
might he also not bet the river...
how likely is it he 3-bets the turn with a hand we would be obliged to call with (K4, K8, a worse K, QJ, T8)...
how do we define scary- if he was tight we would suspect it far more liekly an A hit him if he leads, for example, but with a guy playing 70% of his hands, can we narrow down his range of hands enough to allow us even identify a scare card?

IMO the wait to the river line is better applied in spots where:

1) it is less clear we are ahead and wait to make our opponent more disinclined to 3-bet a better hand or

2) we are afraid our opponent will fold a hopeless or longshot hand to our turn raise when he would have bluffed the river unimproved

Here I think we are ahead a great bit, and it appears opponent will bet many worse hands for us on the river if we call..so how often will he pay off a worse hand if we raise (I am assuming he won't make a bad fold to a turn raise)? I think a lot with multiple draws out there

BTW, higher river aggresssion is consistent with river bluffing and river folding, so will a river raise get paid off?