20-40 Hand

[Kurwood Derby]

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Your logic is faulty

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Isn't just calling with AQo in that situation right out of HPFAP?

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as good as HPFAP is, it has some questionable stuff in it

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Yep, bet thats about the size of it.

[Kurwood Derby]

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Look, I understand I likely have the best hand with AQ. With 2 limpers, I'm raising. Three sure. Four, possibly. 5 or more...nah, I'll look at a flop. Why double the size of the pot on a hand that doesn't play well multiway when I know we're seeing the flop 8 ways? I'm not getting that much value there and it has postflop disadvantages.

I'm not saying raising here is the worst play in the world. I just don't think it's optimal. Leave it to me to turn a run-of-the-mill hand into the preflop debate of the century.

Jeff

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Thats because you happen to be absolutely correct and its beyond the comprehension of these donkeys as to why that's so. Ed Miller tells then to raise all their marginal hands and they're all getting their butts greased up good for him.

[Bascule]

Wow, great analysis.

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You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

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[Mason Malmuth]

Hi SA125:

You need to reread HPFAP again and in the "Loose Games" section you will discover this paragraph:

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There is a bit of a two-edged sword here. If you’re playing against extremely terrible opponents, it’s hard not to raise with pretty good hands because even though you’re costing yourself money on the later streets, your’re gaining so much before the flop because your hand is usually so much better than theirs. In other words, if people are coming in with absolutely everything, you have got to raise with an AQ simply because your hand is so much better on average than so many of the other players.


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So as to whether a raise is correct with the ace-queen offsuit depends on the players who have entered the pot. Without being there, I would say that in general at the $20-$40 limit, you're probably better off just calling, but in some games a raise will clearly be correct. (And if your ace-queen was suited, a raise would always be correct for some additional reasons I won't address here.)

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Fish:

See my post above and you will see exactly what HPFAP says.

Best wishes,
mason

[Drontier]

I raise AJ here without even thinking. Is this wrong?

[Dominic]

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20-40 game on PP. I have AQo on the button. 5 people limp. I limp. The SB and BB come. 8 to the flop (good game). Flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have no hearts). Everyone checks. The turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Now the SB bets and everyone folds to me. SB is unknown. Your play?

Jeff

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raise and call on river, if SB bets. If you're re-raised on turn, same thing. If he calls and checks river...I'd bet for value.

All of this assumes no heart on river....

[amulet]

mason, most games have changed so much in the last several years. 20/40 now has a lot of bad players, and i think most games now meet the criteria described in the above paragraph. while i understand the raise is game specific/opponent(s) specific, do you think i am incorrect in thinking more often then not in todays games the raise is warranted? thank you.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi amulet:

You may be correct but it doesn't matter. Your decision should be made based on the specific game that you are in. If it just happens to be that you are correct, then you will be raising most of the time in this situation.

One thing for sure. With all the new players, the games are better than they have ever been. Hopefully they'll stay like this for a long time.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Jeffage]

IMO, yes.

Jeff