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#1
03-17-2005, 05:26 PM
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Too aggressive on the turn?
Hi all -- I just recently discovered these forums and I've been pretty impressed with the level of analysis that goes into some hands. So I thought I'd post a hand of my own to see what people say:
(pretty new to the table, no real reads to speak of) Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. Flop: (16.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls. Turn: (10.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls. River: (20.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds. Final Pot: 21.25 BB I felt at the time that calling 2 back to me pre-flop might be a mistake but since the pot was pretty huge I figured I'd take a shot. Afterwards I thought it was probably too aggressive to raise the turn -- wondering what all you pros think... 
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#3
03-17-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
You mentioned it already but I'd fold pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd fold the first time, not to mention cold calling 2.
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#4
03-17-2005, 05:34 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You mentioned it already but I'd fold pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd fold the first time, not to mention cold calling 2. [/ QUOTE ] I can live with the first one. Don't love the cold-call 2.
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#5
03-17-2005, 05:37 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You mentioned it already but I'd fold pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd fold the first time, not to mention cold calling 2. [/ QUOTE ] I can live with the first one. Don't love the cold-call 2. [/ QUOTE ] I agree the second is >>>>>>worse than the first. I wouldn't call this from CO/button so I won't call a raise out of position with only 3 others in the pot.
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#6
03-17-2005, 05:44 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You mentioned it already but I'd fold pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd fold the first time, not to mention cold calling 2. [/ QUOTE ] I can live with the first one. Don't love the cold-call 2. [/ QUOTE ] I agree the second is >>>>>>worse than the first. I wouldn't call this from CO/button so I won't call a raise out of position with only 3 others in the pot. [/ QUOTE ] If you called from the CO/Button, you'd be forced to call 2 bets. Hero is in the BB, he only has to call 1. Big difference.
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#7
03-17-2005, 05:48 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You mentioned it already but I'd fold pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd fold the first time, not to mention cold calling 2. [/ QUOTE ] I can live with the first one. Don't love the cold-call 2. [/ QUOTE ] I agree the second is >>>>>>worse than the first. I wouldn't call this from CO/button so I won't call a raise out of position with only 3 others in the pot. [/ QUOTE ] If you called from the CO/Button, you'd be forced to call 2 bets. Hero is in the BB, he only has to call 1. Big difference. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, what I meant to say is if I am on the button, this is not a hand I put one bet in with unless there are a lot of limpers. It's not a hand I like (3rd nut flush, minimal high card, non-connected). That's kind of the criteria I use whenI call a raise from BB.
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#8
03-17-2005, 05:52 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, what I meant to say is if I am on the button, this is not a hand I put one bet in with unless there are a lot of limpers. It's not a hand I like (3rd nut flush, minimal high card, non-connected). That's kind of the criteria I use whenI call a raise from BB. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is mistake, I think there are certainly hands you can call for 1 more bet on the BB getting something like 1:7 odds while you would not possibly limp on the Button for one bet. Your pot odds are typically much better if you have to pay one more SB in the BB.
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#9
03-17-2005, 05:53 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
Leaven any of my comments with the knowledge that I am new at this.
Leaving aside the PF betting - What did the OP think that UTG, UTG+! amd MP1 were holding? I would have saved that 3-bet on the turn for the river, hoping to get a couple more BB if you rivered out with a 4 outer.
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#10
03-17-2005, 05:56 PM
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Re: Too aggressive on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
Leaven any of my comments with the knowledge that I am new at this. Leaving aside the PF betting - What did the OP think that UTG, UTG+! amd MP1 were holding? I would have saved that 3-bet on the turn for the river, hoping to get a couple more BB if you rivered out with a 4 outer. [/ QUOTE ] The way the flop action went, it was totally conceivable that the OP was best on the turn and was right to get additional bets in. Hero got no play on the river so waiting until then to try to get more bets in would've been fruitless.
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