$20-$40 Oceanside Hand

[Jim Brier]

I was visiting some friends in Oceanside when I stopped by Oceans 11 to play some $20-$40. I was moved from the "must move" table to the main table when the following hand came up. I am on the button with the Ad-Jd. Five players limp in and I raise. The big blind and the limpers call so we take the flop seven-handed.

The flop was: Td-5d-2d, giving me the nuts.

The big blind bet and only a middle player called. I just called, deciding to slow play.

The turn was: 6c.

The big blind bet. The middle player raised. I 3-bet and only the middle player called.

The river was: 6h

The middle player checked. What should I do?

I will post the results later.

P.S: Despite the so-called "boom" in poker, Oceans 11 does not spread a $40-$80 game anymore. I have also noticed that Casino Arizona doesn't seem to spread the $40-$80 game either preferring a mixed $60-$120 game instead. In my opinion there has been a noticeable decline in middle limit play over the past two years. I think the "boom" in poker must be occurring at the lower limits. Any thoughts?

[David Steele]

Welcome back!

I would bet the river here.

The poker boom may be mostly online.

D.

[Gabe]

I think it is close because you don't know the player and will have to call a check raise. He didn't reraise you on the turn, so he may not have a flush. I think he'll have a set more than one time in three.
The boom must be just here in Los Angeles.

[AJo Go All In]

i think most players would raise a flopped set on a monotone board, i think the middle player flopped a smaller flush than you. bet and pay off a check-raise. he could still put you on AdAx.

[Phat Mack]

I think the boom in poker may not have reached middle limits yet. A lot of young people are watching TV and getting interested in the game, but have not worked their way up. And they may start off more interested in tounements, online or big bet formats.

As to your hand, I would probably bet. He may have an over pair and/or a high diamond. If I were in your opponent's shoes, I would bet the river with a full house, so depending on my read of him, I might feel my flush was still good.

[Triple C]

There's no reason not to believe you're still ahead when the river pairs the board. To fear a full house would be too passive...I doubt many would slowplay a flopped set with a single suited flop. Get those chips in there...

As for the "boom," it's HUGE in online games, and lower limit games...many are getting introduced to hold'em in home games and especially from ESPN which loops the WSOP constantly. New players don't necessarily want to get into the higher limits when they're still learning.

[mikelow]

Welcome back to 2+2.

Admittedly it looks like a check raise is coming if you bet, you will gain a bet if MP has a straight or something like KT. Checking seems pessimistic to me. What kind of player is he? That would help.

As for your second question, middle limit play is alive and well. The Commerce has a lot of 40-80 going, with twice as many tables as 30-60. Ocean's Eleven had a hard time sustaining a 40-80 game; there's not enough players in that area. Also, online poker has cut into some of the action.

[Clarkmeister]

Jim,

I don't think this one is even close. Bet.

[mike l.]

ive played in that game quite a bit although i definitely had trouble winning in it's more loose aggressive moments.

this is a must-bet on the end and flat call a checkraise expecting to be shown a full house. more often than not though you will be looking at a smaller flush. i dont think it's close at all which is why im wondering why you posted this hand. im guessing you were checkraised and shown a full house. by the way i like how you played the flop. far too many players on here think mandatory raising the flop is the correct play. there may be something for flat calling the turn as well, given turn raiser and turn bettor can have very little.

as for your mid limit shrinking question i think the higher mid limits struggle to get a game going in most places, but smaller mid limits like 15-30 are doing well. oceans 11 does get a 40-80 overs going every now and then when there's a tournament or holiday weekend or something. last time i saw one there were some sort of complaints about possible collusion or something from some of the regulars. pretty ugly, but i have to admit i did not get the full scoop. there are sometimes 3 20-40 games going at once on summer weekends.

[M.B.E.]

Jim -- great to see you back on 2+2 after an 8-month absence. How are your studies going?

As for the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hand, it seems like an easy bet to me but it could be interesting to analyse. First if you figure you can safely fold to a checkraise then you'd have to bet it, because you're easily a favourite those times you are called. The harder question is are you enough of a favourite to bet if you intend to call a checkraise. You might be able to work this out combinatorially if you make some simple assumptions, such as that he would have played a variety of hands exactly as he has done, such as a king-high flush, a queen-high flush, 66, 55, 22, 65s, 43s.