General question: AK in the BB vs a lot of limpers?

[FourKing Hell]

The other day I had AK and it was five or six limpers to me in the BB. I didn't want to check of course, but also didn't really like the idea of 3 or so callers, so I decided to make it an even $100, making a $30 overbet. Much like I expected, they all folded (I dont play LAG or have that image).

But what if someone calls? Do I assume I'm second-best on the flop unless an ace or king comes? If I do hit, I probably won't be paid off, and if I do get it all in I'm most likely beat.
If I do the same with big pairs, people can't call and bluff when I miss, which makes this even more of a 'win it or be forced to check it down' situation. Is this bad?

What comes to mind is a hand in Ciaffone's book. He advocates to make an overbet in that spot with AJ, to most probably steal the pot right away, and do the same with AA, to balance your game. However, AK seems to 'in the middle' for that - neither a borderline good-ish hand not a monster. I think it's a waste to play it as either one of those.

What's your plan?

[tbach24]

Nice post. There are two sides to this argument:

1. You don't want to be building a pot out of position.
2. You don't want to let inferior hands to see the flop for free.

I think that the 2nd part outweighs the first part, therefore I like a raise, however I'm not sure if your's is the most appropriate. I'd like to see what other posters think.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
The other day I had AK and it was five or six limpers to me in the BB. I didn't want to check of course, but also didn't really like the idea of 3 or so callers, so I decided to make it an even $100, making a $30 overbet. Much like I expected, they all folded (I dont play LAG or have that image).

But what if someone calls? Do I assume I'm second-best on the flop unless an ace or king comes? If I do hit, I probably won't be paid off, and if I do get it all in I'm most likely beat.
If I do the same with big pairs, people can't call and bluff when I miss, which makes this even more of a 'win it or be forced to check it down' situation. Is this bad?

What comes to mind is a hand in Ciaffone's book. He advocates to make an overbet in that spot with AJ, to most probably steal the pot right away, and do the same with AA, to balance your game. However, AK seems to 'in the middle' for that - neither a borderline good-ish hand not a monster. I think it's a waste to play it as either one of those.

What's your plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to here opinions from others on this as well. I often have a problem figuring out what to do with good but not great hands out of the blinds (AK, AQs, JJ).

[iceman5]

What are the blinds?

[riverboatking]

you are missing some crucial bits of information.
how deep are the stacks.
and what is the flow of the game?
is the game very passive, or very aggressive?
are the stacks really deep?

these kinds of decisions are not cut and dry, however i will say this:
in deep stack play you have to mix it up, AKsuited is much better w/mulitway pots then AKoff.
also if there are a few very aggro players who like to play back at you then there is no need to raise out of position, because position is everything vs. an aggressive player.
however if the table is very passive post-flop and it is very easy to define your opponents holdings based on their actions then go ahead and make a raise.
but your raise should definately be big enough that you won't end up facing three callers.

also keep in mind the player who acts immediately after you, if he is a calling station then your play has a much lower chance of suceeding, because if he calls now you are much more likely to get a chain reaction of callers.

[bankrobber42]

I think what you did is fine. If someone calls you most likely there holding a small to medium pockets possibly AJ. They have no idea you are holding AK. Your oversized bet is would seem to others as if you have TT, JJ, QQ. So lets say the flop completly misses you and is J95 and you fire out a pot sized bet. I would have a diffilcult time calling with 44.

[Mackerel]

I've struggled with this question myself quite a bit, and experimented with different strategies. Currently, I have taken to overbetting any hand I don't want to fold or play multi-handed. That includes AKo, AQo, AJo (occasionally, depending on the limpers), AA, KK, QQ and JJ (also occasionally). If I get any callers, I'm betting nearly every flop. The main exception is against a handful of players that I know like to limp AA & KK early & then just call the big raise. Against them, I'm more likely to either check/fold, check/call or check/raise the flop, depending on the board.

If I get played with on the flop, it's time to play poker with a made hand, but I'm usually done with unimproved high cards.

This seems to be working pretty well for me, but I need to get into poker tracker after I have more of these hands to see how well it really works.

I'd be interested in any opinions on this play or alternative plays.

[Neb41]

OK, this is my first reply but im am not new 2 poker i am very knowledgable and have much experiance. Heres my 2 cents on the play. I see a raise here as a bad play for two main reasons.
1. your position (obvios)
2. the hands u want to fold wont they will call or reraise ( big poket pairs AA KK )and the hands u wanna to play against with AK will fold (AQ,AJ,ATs KQ and so on). I dont mean to sound arrogant but Ciaffone is wrong while a raise with AA is correct a raise with AJ is a large mistake for the following reason. In No- LImit you dont make raises with hands that hate reraises like (AJ,99).You can make raises with hands that dont mind reraises for the obvious reasons that that they are so good they welcome it like (AA,KK). Or with hands that are so bad they dont mind being reraised since they can fold (J4,93). This concept is explained very well in Tournement Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky. AK does not fall into either category therefore i beleiev u should check and when u flop comes down 3 7 A you will win the maximum from players holding the likes of AJ.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]


also keep in mind the player who acts immediately after you, if he is a calling station then your play has a much lower chance of suceeding, because if he calls now you are much more likely to get a chain reaction of callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate when that happens.

[JFB37]

Interesting opinions. In this thread from a couple of days ago the consensus was that a raise was a better play: How many limpers before you'll check AKs in the BB?