why can't i bet MORE? then you would FOLD!!!

[mgsimpleton]

ok another bluff. i just came off winning while calling one small bet in a raised pot in the BB with 25s. I hit a straight flush. Hence my thinking in this hand (25s = nuts)

I'm onthe button with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
CO posts... and it's folded aroundto him and he checks. real powerhouse hand he has. so i'm going to pick up the blinds/co limper's dead money. and even if i play 25s justhit a straight flush!! onto the hand...

I raise, limpers fold and CO calls...

Flop (2.5BB): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

CO checks, I bet, he calls.

At this point, I give him a big club. Maybe even a piece of the board but not likely, pretty much a high club and maybe a T or something for a draw.

Turn (3.5BB): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

CO checks, Hero bets, CO calls. (I fully expected his call here but if I check behind I have no credibility to bluff the non club river, right?)

River (5.5BB): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

CO checks. Hmm looks like I do indeed still have 5 high. I bet.

Flame away.

p.s. before you all flame too hard with the posts about how small this pot is to fight for, i thought my flop bet would take it down then when it didn't i fully expected to win a turn bet with significant river fold equity. but ok flame away.

[damaniac]

You mean CO posted right? Posters tend not to fold that easily, at least preflop, so your effective odds are somewhat worse since you basically have to put in 1.5BB to win 1.25 (and that's assuming the blinds fold which is no sure thing, then your steal is shot). If you had posted, I think this is an auto raise if you had posted, but since you didn't I'd fold.

Given that you didn't, I think you can give up somewhere, but it isn't certain. He could have a club draw/gutshot, in which case the river bet will fold him, but I dunno if he has that vs. a pair more than 1 in 6.5. Usually if I get called on a flop like this with no hand I give up on the turn though. Too likely he has something he wants to show down.

I think you should slow down on the turn, and play the river based on what he does. If he bets, you have to fold. If he checks, he could've completely missed and you may be able to make a desperation bluff.

[Brunger]

Your only real mistake is playing this hand in the first place. The problem is a lot of the time you end up in a 3-way pot with 5 high in a limit game so even if the poster has a terrible hand or is not sophisticated enough to know he should be raising a lot of hands here you should still wait for something better than 25s to come in. I think that the postflop play is reasonable just don't expect him to ever fold an A or K and remember that the pot is a small one to fight over, which you already realize. Plus if nothing else you will get paid off in the future.

[SeaEagle]

The generally accepted advice on this forum is to raise [almost] any 2 in this situation. 52s is such a terrible hand that I wouldn't raise it if the blinds were even a smidgen loose, though.

Post flop, I think you're getting called to the river with any single club, most Ax and Kx, and some Qx. From a hand distribution standpoint, you're probably getting showndown enough to give up on the turn.

As you played it, definitely bet the river.

[brettbrettr]

Give up on the turn.

[mgsimpleton]

can you elaborate as to hand range you put him on, etc. just saying "give it up on the turn" is not constructive criticism. FWIW in the CO after posting with just blinds, i full expect him to raise any broadway cards here. I really think he just has a club. But if you disagree or for whatever reason please elaborate.

[Lmn55d]

I'm not sure exactly what limit is, but the hand range you give him after he doesn't raise preflop and check/calls the flop is too narrow. There are a lot of passive players in this game who would play a hand containing Ax,Qx, Kx this way. He's not folding too many clubs on the turn, so a better way of bluffing it might be to check the turn and bet the river if he checks. I think this would have a higher EV than firing 2 bullets, partly b/c you can see if the river is a club. Checking the turn definitely is better than betting again imo. A gutshot will often call as well, meaning your turn bet will succeed less.

[brettbrettr]

You have 52s on the button. He checks his post in the CO. His range here is any two. I'd bet even money on one hundred spearate deals that his hand is better than yours. Fold preflop. Really, don't get fancy with these donks. Trying to get them to fold can get expensive. I know you're betting his cards not yours. But betting yours in these games is often the better move. Don't go nutso over an extra small bet.

As far as my give up on the turn advice, this guy could have a queen, a club, a shitty king, anything. Point is he posted and you know zero about his style or his hand. Tyring to make a move on him is ok, I guess. But on that board, you have to think he's seeing the river after he calls the flop. Just as you're putting him on a club (and you should know that he's not laying it down on the turn, ever, if that's what he has) he could be putting you on a club. These guys aren't good and they don't like folding. Making moves on them--especially unknowns--can't be +EV.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
The generally accepted advice on this forum is to raise [almost] any 2 in this situation. 52s is such a terrible hand that I wouldn't raise it if the blinds were even a smidgen loose, though.

Post flop, I think you're getting called to the river with any single club, most Ax and Kx, and some Qx. From a hand distribution standpoint, you're probably getting showndown enough to give up on the turn.

As you played it, definitely bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when is this the generally accepted advice?