Top pair, decent kicker on flop

#1 12-29-2005, 04:08 AM

MP2 is a mouse preflop but turns into a LAG postflop 33/0/2.5
UTG + 2 is probably typical for these limits 30/4/1.25

Was stuck because given the opponents the hand seemed to strong to lay down yet to weak to raise with.
How is the calling down option?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

#2 12-29-2005, 04:19 AM

I don't like the flop call. You are getting 11-to-2. If you think you are ahead now, then 3bet it. If not, it's time to fold. You don't have odds to draw to your 5 outs.

#3 12-29-2005, 04:27 AM

I raise the flop and proceed with caution on the turn. I don't like raising the flop, but it seems much better than calling and I can't quite justify a fold. I'd like to fold though, and I probably will fold often just because I don't feel up to playing such a scary hand.

On this turn I raise and fold to a 3-bet. The 4 couldn't have helped UTG so I figure he is Jx or AJ. If he is trips I'll get away from the 3-bet, otherwise I am probably winning against his hand range. MP2 is highly aggressive and now he's calling so I assume straight draw. Might even fold him if he gets scared of the raise but I'm not overly worried about him.

On this river I agree with the call.

#4 12-29-2005, 04:30 AM

His outs are pretty clouded anyhow. This is definitely not a drawing hand. I agree it's either raise or fold here.

#5 12-29-2005, 04:34 AM

I like a pre-flop raise here sometimes depending on the blinds (will they fold--if they're calling stations, you need to hit hard to win, so see a flop cheap).
I might be inclined to 3-bet the flop since MP2 is just being aggressive like always postflop so he doesn't necessairly have you beat. Define your hand early vs. your opponents, before betting gets expensive later.
Calling down from then on vs. any remaining opponents isn't bad.

#6 12-29-2005, 06:20 AM

:grunch

Maybe I'm too aggressive, but I go for the raise pre-flop here. With 3 limpers and the blinds to go, you'll get 5SB in the pot for the cost of extra 1SB to you. OTB with no raising hands in front of me, I'd be feeling confident so I'd want a bigger pot. If the blinds don't complete, then that's good too as it tells me they had the kind of trash hands that could have drawn out on a marginal holding like KJo.

On the flop, when I play KJo I'm realistically looking for a flop like 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. There's no flush draw, no pair on the board and only QTo is a realistic straight draw hand. With top pair and a K kicker, you have to believe you're ahead here. Your biggest worry would be a pair of 6s or 9s in the hole - though perhaps a pair of 9s would have been raised. I've seen plenty of AJ hands raised, so I'd think that less likely than A6 or A9, though all are a worry. That said, JT, QJ, K9, 77, 88 and TT are all possibilities for UTG+2 here, not to mention trash like Q9, Q6 or frankly, just about anything from the blinds (even 69 unfortunately). Personally, I go for the raise here firstly because I think in all likelihood I'm ahead, and secondly because a raise might make a marginal hand like K6, Q9 etc fold and you're only a marginal favourite over these right now. A reraise here and I'd lay it down, fearing the set or two pair.

Given that you're already gone for the calling option I think that's consistent here on the turn, though if I'd been raising I'd be tempted to raise again. The way you've played it, the 6 on the river is a concern, and I too would check and call. However, if I'd raised the flop and turn, I would hope that anyone holding K6 etc would be gone by now. That said, with my raises on the flop and turn being called, I'd be pretty sure that anyone calling a raise on the river would have me beat so I'd probably check and make a crying call or perhaps even fold.

#7 12-29-2005, 10:00 AM

This probably is a preflop raise (I'm still finding my own way with preflop play).

I would raise the flop with this rationale - if MP2 (lag post flop) wasn't there, you would certainly raise UTG+2's opening bet - just because it's two to you here, at this stage I'm not prepared to put either on a monster. As it happened, facing the blinds with two cold was enough to knock them out - I would be more confident of knocking out their (dangerous) overcards if facing them with 3 cold.

From then on, if it comes back to you capped, it's certainly time to slow down and give a bit of respect. Turn and river, I would call a single bet to me or bet if it is checked to me.

Jonny1723 · #8 12-29-2005, 10:12 AM

Personally I'd raise on the flop. KJ is a good hand in this position, and it may well buy a free card on the turn.

If it gets capped, I'd probably fold the turn UI.

#9 12-29-2005, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'd raise on the flop. KJ is a good hand in this position, and it may well buy a free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do we want a free card on the turn?

Why do we assume that we are not ahead if it is checked to us here?

If we want a cheap showdown (and I don't see why we would), surely our line would be bet turn (fold to c/r), check behind on river wouldn't it?