Quick Question with Trips against a flush draw

[dengar]

I have had this happen a couple times recently and I wanted opinions on what the correct play is.

What is your play when flopping trips from early position in a multiway pot when two of the board cards are suited?

I have been leading out at the pot, because I fear giving up a turn card if I go for a check raise in this situation.

I have lost a couple of these types of hands because the flushes have hit on either the turn or the river and there was really no way to protect my hand and chase these draws away.

Does everyone else lead at this post and cross their fingers ?

First post in this forum. Thanks in advance. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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I have lost a couple of these types of hands because the flushes have hit on either the turn or the river and there was really no way to protect my hand and chase these draws away.


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You are never ever ever never ever ever never ever going to get someone to fold a flush draw. So all you have to worry about is getting a lot of $$$ in the pot as you are like a 75% favorite to win the hand. Sometimes you accomplish this by leading, other times by c/r. Depends on the situation and your opponents.

I think you are making the right play. Especially if the player is the type who would reraise you with the flush draw. You can keep pushing him around when he has the wrong odds. Besides, even if he hits his flush, you have a reasonable redraw to a full house.

I would also consider check raising, though only against a player who would bet out with a flush draw.

[@bsolute_luck]

see you just play bad poker. look this is how it's done (very simple):

lead how, hope a flush draw raises in LP for "free card", 3-bet.

turn he gets his flush, so you bet, of course he raises.

here is the key ingredient that you forget (and many noobs do so don't feel bad): just FREAKIN' RIVER THE FULL HOUSE and c/r the suckout fool and then when he complains to you about sucking out say "ssh, i'm busy stacking your chips" (credit to another 2+2er for that last line [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

[centja1]

I used to fear the flush draw like the plague when I had a strong hand such as a set. I think this was because I knew i would lose a large pot if the third flush card came since I would be betting and raising as much as the law allowed. As said earlier, you'll never get anyone to fold a flush draw because they are just about always getting their odds unless it's a small unraised pot.

The thing that got me over this irrational fear is to simply realize that when you flop a set against someone with a flush draw, you are a bigger favorite to make a full house than they are to make a flush. Since your three of a kind always takes away one of their flush outs, you have 7 outs on the turn and 10 on the river to a boat. They only have 8 outs on the turn and less on the river (since a non-flush turn could counterfeit one of their outs depending on if the turn pairs them or not).

When this happens, the only likely way that they win is to make their flush since they will typically have almost zero outs other than that flush draw.

Bet, check-raise, re-raise........do whatever you think will get money in the pot!

[jat850]

The themes from the others are right - bet out, unless you feel someone will bet so you can c/r. Flushes won't fold, maybe even raise, so 3 bet when you can if you bet and are raised. Just last night my pocket JJ's hit JTx on the flop. Turn Q, River Q. I lost a lot to my HU opponent who hadn't raised pocket QQ until the river and he had me on the turn. But, I'll still win more than I lose. Build it up.

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The thing that got me over this irrational fear is to simply realize that when you flop a set against someone with a flush draw, you are a bigger favorite to make a full house than they are to make a flush. Since your three of a kind always takes away one of their flush outs, you have 7 outs on the turn and 10 on the river to a boat. They only have 8 outs on the turn and less on the river (since a non-flush turn could counterfeit one of their outs depending on if the turn pairs them or not).

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Just a nitpick, your three of a kind doesn't always take away a flush out. If you have 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and the board is 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], then they still have 9 flush outs.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you say they have fewer outs on the river depending on whether the turn pairs them or not. I'm probably just dense, but maybe you could explain that a bit more.

[centja1]

i guess I could have thought this through a bit more myself, but the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is not an out in your example. This, of course, assumes that they do not hold the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in their hand, in which case they would, in fact, have all 9 flush outs working.

on the turn, though, if a non-flush card card doesn't pair them, then the flush card of that rank will pair the board and not be an out for them. This is the same concept as on the flop as to whether or not your opponent has the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in his hand.

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i guess I could have thought this through a bit more myself, but the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is not an out in your example. This, of course, assumes that they do not hold the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in their hand, in which case they would, in fact, have all 9 flush outs working.

on the turn, though, if a non-flush card card doesn't pair them, then the flush card of that rank will pair the board and not be an out for them. This is the same concept as on the flop as to whether or not your opponent has the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in his hand.

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Good points, I hadn't thought of that.

[callmedonnie]

There are several things I think you need to think about first in these situations. Knowing that a very aggressive player behind me is likely to raise a bet, I would definitely lead. Sometimes waiting for the turn when you can split someone's pot odds in half with a checkraise is the best option.

It all depends on the size of the pot already and what type of action you can anticipate behind you. With a small pot, I am firing away because first, the pot odds are worse for callers and second because I want to win a big pot with my big hand.

Large multiway pots would lend themselves towards waiting for the turn. Since you can't defend your hand anyway, and you can't get much value since callers are likely correct to call, I pray for a decent card.

Also, remember that on flop your odds of filling up or hitting quads are slightly better than the odds of a flush coming.