Just Keep Losing...

I've read the Theory of Poker, and recently I read Dan Harringtons on holdem vol. 1 (have 2, but haven't touched it yet).

I would still put myself as a beginner, and the more and more that I think of it, probably the biggest fish alive for online poker play.

From harrington's book I learned to take into account position and play certain hands. I play about 20% flops average and sit in 50NL games with a decent bankroll to back myself up.

I try figuring out my opponents, but in online play it can be quite difficult and I sometimes have luck and sometimes don't in figuring out my oponent. When I play 3 tables it can be hard to do it.

When i'm betting I mostly take into account my pot odds, but have a lot of difficulty with hand odds. I'm pretty good once I get the big hand of keeping my opponents with me, without overbetting or underbetting (in most situations).

It just seems like in these situations when I win, I win small amounts often. But when I lose, I lose BIG, and usually takes my entire bankroll, and crippling me and making me wonder why I even play.

A few hand examples of plays I have done:

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=166029

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=165960

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=165910

Idk, maybe I need to give some sections a reread or something? I'm just completely lost, I love hold-em, and have many friends who are quite successfull bringing in 40 an hour to 80 an hour respectively. I infact though am losing money and am just lost...

I wish I had like a 'tutor' or someone to help me when I play, to correct horrible..horrible calls that I make or bad reads. Or maybe I'm just not cut out for this game...

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[tonypaladino]

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It just seems like in these situations when I win, I win small amounts often. But when I lose, I lose BIG, and usually takes my entire bankroll, and crippling me and making me wonder why I even play.


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Post some of the big losing hands in the SSNL forum for comments on your play.

[pzhon]

HOH concentrates on tournament play, not NL cash games. The main difference is the stack sizes. In cash games, it is common for many players at the table to have over 100 big blinds. In tournaments, it is common for many players to have fewer than 20 big blinds. You appear to be making some serious mistakes as a result of ignoring the implied odds that come with the deep stacks. As a result, you are getting your money in with the worst of it in too many big pots.

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I would still put myself as a beginner...

I try figuring out my opponents... When I play 3 tables it can be hard to do it.


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Why are you playing 3 tables? I play multiple tables to make more money. You suggest that you are losing money, and that your play degrades when you play 3 tables. Both of these argue for playing fewer tables. Why not drop down to 2 tables, or 1 table?

Your play in the first hand was pretty bad. You aren't choosing your bet sizes well. The minimum raise was horrible, as was the bet of 1/3 of the pot on the highly coordinated flop. You should make your bets and raises in proportion to the pot. You are giving your opponents great odds to draw out on you, and you are not getting enough value. The same was true when you made a tiny bet and tiny reraise on the KQJ flop with JJ.

I recommend reading the SSNL forum. Not all of the advice there is good, but you should try to follow how the experienced winning players approach the game. I also recommend that you buy in for only half of the maximum buy-in. That way, you won't be able to lose so much in large pots while you are learning to play them.

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I'm just completely lost, I love hold-em, and have many friends who are quite successfull bringing in 40 an hour to 80 an hour respectively. I infact though am losing money and am just lost...


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If you have many friends making money at the game you should be sweating their game. If they are long time winners they would make good tutors.

[AKQJ10]

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Post some of the big losing hands in the SSNL forum for comments on your play.

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What's wrong with posting them here as the OP did? I tend to find this forum rather more helpful than the STT forum, though I don't really have an opinion on the SSNL one.

[AKQJ10]

Your reading sounds good. Harrington I will help a lot for ring games even though its frame of reference is tournaments.

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When I play 3 tables it can be hard to do it.

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Until you know you're a good enough player to beat the game you're playing in, you have no business playing more than one table.

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It just seems like in these situations when I win, I win small amounts often. But when I lose, I lose BIG, and usually takes my entire bankroll, and crippling me and making me wonder why I even play.

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I'm still new to NLHE, but this was my experience too. I think you'd be wise to consider the small-stack strategy laid out in GSIH.

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http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=166029

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You got very lucky in this hand by hitting your two-outer to aces full. You misplayed it by not raising enough preflop. You want pocket sixes to make a mistake by calling your raise. In the event the sixes didn't make a mistake to call your raise, because they were getting 5:1 expressed odds from the pot, and the addition of implied odds meant they were correct to try to outdraw you. You later showed that you would in fact pay their set off at about 10:1 (see turn action), and who knows how much more on the river had you not filled up, so they had the implied odds to take their shot at flopping a set (about 7.5:1, but a little worse when considering that they need to flop a six without flopping an ace.)

On the flop you should bet more forcefully, even though in this case you're being slowplayed. The sixes are probably making a mistake to slowplay, because any heart except the five; or any deuce, four, or seven on the turn is going to make their life much difficult as well as yours. But the sixes get lucky and turn the top full house and second-nut hand.

On the turn you've got to start thinking you're behind to a three, pocket fives, pocket sixes, or something absurd like 7-4 or 4-2. (This doesn't sound like a game where you can rule out any preflop holding totally, especially since you didn't put in much of a raise.)

You got profoundly lucky on the river. But you should have raised more effectively preflop to make the sixes pay to draw out on you. If you want to raise to twice the blind, you need to move to limit poker.

(I know see that I'm mostly repeating pzhon's post -- sorry about that. But since pzhon knows his stuff, I'm encouraged to have repeated his post. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

Here is an example of one of my beats.. its like I just cant see that Im beat..

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=166608

with him calling $2 and being in not a great position I figured maybe AK or AQ, but I was confused if he did have these hands why not raise... I certainly didnt put him on 67 suited... ugh

[SheridanCat]

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Here is an example of one of my beats

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The thing about poker is that sometimes you just lose and there's nothing you can do about it. What was this guy doing in there with 76s after a raise and a reraise? Well, I can't say - it was poor play. Let's not worry about that guy.

My guestion is, what are you doing calling a big raise on the flop with your hand? Yes, you have top pair, but your kicker is suspect. That's the problem with a hand like ATo - it's very easily dominated.

Once your ten hits, you're just going to lose. It's not really a bad beat, just a bad situation. Sometimes you can't avoid this.

Regards,

T

[AKQJ10]

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Here is an example of one of my beats.. its like I just cant see that Im beat..

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=166608

with him calling $2 and being in not a great position I figured maybe AK or AQ, but I was confused if he did have these hands why not raise... I certainly didnt put him on 67 suited... ugh

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Well, the pot-sized raise on the flop should give you pause. A good player will realize her trips are vulnerable on a two-suited board and likely not slowplay them. Granted, a player bad enough to call preflop raises with 76s is bad enough to slowplay and give free cards, but you had to seriously consider you were behind to a 7 or a better ace.

Like Sheridan said, once the ten hit you were probably going to have a tough time folding.

Notice that 76s probably got implied odds to call you, since you paid off a monster hand. Therefore it's not entirely clear he made a mistake preflop, given your inability to fold top pair-middle kicker on a paired board.

[AKQJ10]

Oops, I forgot to notice the preflop action (and my post timed out before I could edit it.... stupid computer problems, grrr). The raise on the button is good, but should be more than 2x the blind. For all practical purposes a beginner is likely to encounter, YOU MAY EITHER FOLD, LIMP, OR RAISE A MINIMUM OF 3x THE BIG BLIND (preferably with emphasis on the first and third options). YOU SHOULD NOT RAISE THE MINIMUM ALLOWABLE, even though most sites make this the default. You seem to have problems with minraising, and you need to break that habit immediately.

At any rate, once it's reraised behind you you can safely release ATo unless the reraiser is a known maniac. Every reasonable reraising hand (AA, KK, QQ, AK) and several questionable ones (JJ, TT, AQ, AJ) dominate AT. Unless you have a read on the raiser, figure you have three or fewer outs and throw your hand away preflop.