Peyton after two quarters...

[ThaSaltCracka]

you are grouchy today, I was just asking a question.

[bugstud]

His Oline has often been makeshift and his defense atrocious. I don't think it's all his fault.

[HDPM]

Ah, he just wasn't crithp. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[adios]

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He's the best defensive player in the history of the NFL, and he's in his prime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that one. As far as linebackers I can think of a lot of great ones through the years. It would seem almost impossible to prove that anyone is the best linebacker of all time let alone best defensive player of all time.

[adios]

This was a function more of the Packers horrid secondary (a secondary with a lot of injuries in all fairness but not that good even when healthy) and a poor defensive scheme.

[Daliman]

I think you're referring to the Stats of Tom Brady, and if so, yer WAY wrong.

Brady's good, but Manning is First Ballot Hall of fame. Brady doesn't even have NEAR the stats/accolades of Kurt Warner, and the championship thing, while nice is WAY overrated.
Marino- Zero championships.
Favre- One championship
Tarkenton-Zero championships
Moon- Zero championships

Jeff Hostetler and Trent Dilfer BOTH have as many Chamionships of the preceding 4 QB's considered all time greats.

How Many "Big Games" did Elway win before Terrell came around? Was he not a "big game player" before then. I'd yake his 2 minute execution vs Brady or ANYONE, anytime.

Priest Holmes is the best player in the NFL, Followed closely by Ray lewis, btw.

Actually, scratch that, Lewis IS the best, But Priest is more valuable.

ANd the best fantasy QB by far is Daunte Culpepper.

[Daliman]

Tell ya what, Clark and Kurn. I like Brady ALOT, but since you seem to be heading up the Brady for Prez fan club round these parts, I have a proposition for you.

I'll bet you any amount you name and I can afford that Manning will be in the Hall of Fame as early or earlier in Eligibility as TOm Brady.

Ya, it's long term, but i like my guaranteed winners any way they come.

[Daliman]

Reigning, Co-MVP Peyton Manning;

[ QUOTE ]
He's by far the biggest underachiever and disappointment in the NFL today.


[/ QUOTE ]


Wither thine credibility, Clarky?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Listen, Salt, if you take Brady's OT record and do-or-die record, that's 4 wins per season attributable to Brady's ability to *get the job done*. None of that has anything to do with the Patriot's defense or the overall composition of the team.

Add to that the fact that in the two Super Bowl years, he had arguably the least talented running backs and wide receivers in his division and it's clear to people who understand football (like Bill Walsh) that the difference in NE being just another playoff caliber team and winning two championships is the quarterback.

Show me another QB in the NFL who, over a 3-year period, when faced with under 2 minutes remaining in a game and his team must score to avoid a loss, has been successful over 92% of the time.

I'm not saying Manning isn't talented, but all the passing yards in the world don't compare to that one stat. Manning isn't as clutch *with* Marvin Harrison as his go-to guy. Ley's trade Harrison for David Givens and see how Peyton's stats look.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Did you watch the Giants-Ravens Super Bowl? Did you see Collins' Nancy-girl slide 2 yards short of a key first down because he saw Ray Lewis 7 yards in front of him?

Not only is he an intimidating hitter, he's never out of position (unlike the most over-rated player in the game, Junior Seau), *and* he's the best the best pass-defender of any linebacker who's ever played.