|
|
#11
05-31-2005, 02:00 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
[ QUOTE ]
Is the best thing to do just play passive hoping someone improves to second best? Last week I flopped a full house and slowplayed, 2 players got straights on the river and one got a flush. The river was capped and I got 25 BB if I remember correctly. Maybe Ill post it if I can find it. [/ QUOTE ] Ask yourself this: Would raising on the turn have made more than half of these players fold? If they were willing to cap the betting on the river with a paired board and 3 to a flush you would have made more money by raising on the turn almost guaranteed. Slowplay on the flop when there aren't any good draws available - even then it's frequently wrong unless the pot is small - you don't want them to pick up a good draw that can beat you if the pot is already fairly large. The rest of the time you're more likely to be missing bets. Any hand that is likely to improve to something that will get into a raising war with you will likely happily pay a few bets to get there first. They are more likely to miss than to hit - make some money before that happens. NL is a somewhat different story. 
|
|
#12
05-31-2005, 02:32 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
Thank god - I was beginning to think I was being the butt of some kind of practical joke, with everyone saying "bet the turn" and nobody saying why. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
[ QUOTE ] Let's say you're up against that two-pair hand - is it more likely they will call on the turn while thinking they are probably beaten but drawing to the boat or on the river after they miss it? Bet while they still have hope. [/ QUOTE ] This depends very much on who you are up against. The guy has four outs to fill up, and would be getting 4.5-to-1 on his money. The most he can milk out of the pot is 8.5 (unless you want to assume that the third person goes along for the ride and caps the river as well with god-knows-what), so not even the implied odds give him the right price to fill up. [ QUOTE ] What about someone holding a straight or a set? He isn't going to bet, but he will very possibly call at least one bet. Let's give him a chance to call two. [/ QUOTE ] On a board with four clubs?? Maybe the PP games are looser than I suspected, but come on - the guy with the straight is drawing completely dead if one of the remaining two players has a club! A set is looking at ten outs, any one of which if he hits he's going to give you tons of action, because he'll think that you only have a flush. The set is getting the right price to call, but with the action on before and on the flop it's extremely unlikely that anyone has a set in the first place. I say check and give him a chance to make his hand on the river. Even if he doesn't, your bet on the river smells enough like a bluff under normal circumstances to get calls from sets and/or straights! You are completely shooting yourself in the foot and losing potential bets if you bet on the turn. [ QUOTE ] Singleton club? Well if it exists we know it is a low one. He is *much* more likely to call on a prayer than to bet. Low clubs that may have called will almost certainly check this through. [/ QUOTE ] A prayer of what? The fourth club shows up and you come out betting, then some guy holding the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] thinks that you just made a higher flush (after all,the two clubs that beat him, J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] are still out there). Checking on the turn and betting on the river may convince him that nobody else has a club, and even if he doesn't come out betting, he'll probably call a bet on the river, whereas I don't think he would on the turn. [ QUOTE ] Basically there is only one reason not to bet and that is if you think your opponent is more likely to bet than to call. [/ QUOTE ] On the river that's true, but I never suggested checking on the river - I think it would be silly to check-check, and I also think it would be silly to bet on the turn; check on the turn, if someone bets, great, if someone doesn't, that's ok too, just bet on the river and someone will probably look you up, either suspecting a bluff or thinking that his 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is the best. All that betting on the turn does IMHO is say "hey, I've got an awesome hand, now GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!" which of course is the last thing that you want. You want both of your opponents to be convinced that they have a shot at winning this pot, and giving them 4.5-to-1 on an 10.5-to-1 shot to fill up (or hoping that a made straight will somehow not notice that there are four clubs on the board) just doesn't accomplish that. [ QUOTE ] Fortunately his inner fish is likely to "keep you honest" with a call but bluffing is pretty unlikely. [/ QUOTE ] I agree completely, which is why I think checking the river would be a huge mistake. You're almost certain to get looked up by a table sheriff even when neither player made their hand. Add this to the remote (but still possible) possibility that someone fills up and thus gives you tons of action, or if someone just has a club and the action convinces him that his baby-flush is good, and you have a huge mistake in chasing them out on the turn IMHO. To put it another way, a lottery ticket has a ridiculously remote possibility of winning, but which would you rather have - a lottery ticket or a dog turd?
|
|
#13
05-31-2005, 02:46 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
Very valid points - it's just a question of what you think is more likely. In my experience you get a lot of calls from hopeless hands in low limit play. I find the profit of getting people to draw incorrectly and pay even more when they hit are significantly higher than the profits of letting them draw for free and paying when they hit. I don't believe it is particularly close, but I could be wrong.
Give your opponents more opportunities to make huge mistakes and you might be surprised. I don't think this is limited to Party either, but it is certainly prevalent there. If you never ever slow-played on Party < $2/$4 I don't think you'd cost yourself very much money and if you do it a lot you'd probably make a lot more by not doing it. Hopefully some others will join in with their experiences.
|
|
#14
05-31-2005, 02:59 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully some others will join in with their experiences. [/ QUOTE ] Indeed. Although I still think that 10 times out of 11, the situation will be a choice between getting 1 bet on the river out of the table sheriff (or possibly two if the other fellow has a handtoo), or zero bets on the turn.
|
|
#15
05-31-2005, 05:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
[ QUOTE ]
The guy has four outs to fill up, and would be getting 4.5-to-1 on his money. The most he can milk out of the pot is 8.5 (unless you want to assume that the third person goes along for the ride and caps the river as well with god-knows-what), so not even the implied odds give him the right price to fill up. [/ QUOTE ] Do you really think your opponents are going through this thought process? People call with hopeless hands all the time.
|
|
#16
06-01-2005, 02:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The guy has four outs to fill up, and would be getting 4.5-to-1 on his money. The most he can milk out of the pot is 8.5 (unless you want to assume that the third person goes along for the ride and caps the river as well with god-knows-what), so not even the implied odds give him the right price to fill up. [/ QUOTE ] Do you really think your opponents are going through this thought process? People call with hopeless hands all the time. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but with four clubs on board, the only hand someone's going to call with (besides a small club of their own) is three of a kind or possibly two pair, in order to make a full house. If you bet on the turn, 9 times out of 10 everybody folds and you win 0 bets. If you check on the turn, bet on the river, you win 1 bet from the table sheriff (because as prone as people are to call with hopeless hands even though they see four clubs, they are way more prone to "keep you honest" at low-limit) at least - that's not counting the times when someone else has a club and your check on the turn convinces them that their baby-flush is best, or when someone actually does fill up and they're going to cap it on the river because they think you only have a flush and they're going to extract as many bets from you as they can. So it seems to me that it's a simple choice between winning either 0 bets nearly all of the time, or at least 1 bet nearly all of the time and more bets than that some of the time.
|
|
#17
06-01-2005, 11:22 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Finally got a Royal Flush lol,
[ QUOTE ]
Check the turn, Check the river. I've got a royal flush and i want everyone to see [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Uncheck 'auto-muck' and BET!
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
