quick one: set on a flush board

The Goober · #1 04-02-2005, 09:55 AM

Live 8-16, relevant players all play too many hands and go too far with them, but are generally reasonably good players.

EP raises, called in 3 places, I call from the BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players, 10 SB)
hero bets, folded to MP limper who raises, folded back to hero who 3-bets, MP calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 8BB)
Hero...

einbert · #2 04-02-2005, 09:56 AM

check/call, then check/call the river unless you fill up.

Spook · #3 04-02-2005, 10:02 AM

Bet out, call. check fold if you don't improve on the river and he raised the turn.

bdk3clash · #4 04-04-2005, 04:38 AM

Check-calling this turn would suck because by betting out you have a chance to fold many hands that are drawing very live against you if it goes check-check, such AXo with the X being a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or TT/JJ with a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. You'll also get skeptical calls from flop overpairs without a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Getting raised on this turn is far from a disaster.

If you get raised on the turn, obviously you're calling. Probably checkraise if you fill up, otherwise you can check-call the river or check-fold, it's probably close but I'd almost always call and feel dumb.

To me, the only interesting situation that can come up on hands like this is when you bet the turn and he calls and then the river blanks. Uh...

BTW I would have checkraised this flop--I really don't like betting out.

donger · #5 04-04-2005, 04:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check-calling this turn would suck because by betting out you have a chance to fold many hands that are drawing very live against you if it goes check-check, such AXo with the X being a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or TT/JJ with a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Any club isn't drawing on the turn, it has him beaten. I don't think giving a free river card is an issue here.

wrto4556 · #6 04-04-2005, 04:55 AM

There's already 4 clubs on the board. Check call

sthief09 · #7 04-04-2005, 05:12 AM

when you check the turn I think that guy's gonna bet out just about every time, with or without a club

The Goober · #8 04-04-2005, 05:12 AM

thanks for all the feedback. As it happened, I bet the turn and immediately regretted it when I got raised - I think checking is right here b/c the pot is not huge. If it was very big, then maybe a bet is right b/c an oppoent with no club has 9 outs to a split?

I called the turn, and got lucky when the board paired on the river. Who goes for the check-raise here and who bets out? It seems like most of the time when I make my hand on the river OOP I tend to bet out because I hate the idea of it getting checked through, and a lot of the players I play against tend to play very passively on the river, fearing the worst. Is this just a case of loss aversion? Should I be going for more checkraises in situations like this?

bdk3clash · #9 04-04-2005, 05:18 AM

Jesus am I tired. Please disgregard my post. I'd edit/delete it but it's too late.

Argus · #10 04-04-2005, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
when you check the turn I think that guy's gonna bet out just about every time, with or without a club

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, that's why I think checking is the best course of action. "Check with outs, bet without". You have ten outs to a hand that beats a flush, and you're almost certainly going to induce a bluff from any non club hand anyway. I'm not sure about what to do on the river if you do pair up. Any hand without a club is probably checking through since you called their turn bet, and even a weak flush might check through for the free showdown. This depends on your read on villain, but despite these considerations I would try a river check/raise upon filling up, and check/calling without filling up.