9c8c blind defense at 3/6

[private joker]

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What's FPS mean?

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Fancy Play Syndrome. It's what you adequately described in the rest of the body of your post.

[mtdoak]

I have no problem with the call...but I would have a problem with it if you were calling to defend your blind. You likely have two live cards here are are likley not a 3-1 dog. However, given the strength that the PFR has shown so far, I would check hoping that he has a big pair and gives you a free card here. I doubt he has much folding equity, unless he has a hand like AQo.

[dark_horse]

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What's FPS mean?

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Fancy Play Syndrome. It's what you adequately described in the rest of the body of your post.

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[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] you guys love to gang up on me. i always thought i looked at hands in a straightforward manner. when i see people with "FPS" i internally make fun of them, and knew that a while ago i played like that as well. i didn't realize that my plays were fancy only for the sake of being fancy. i did describe the logic behind each action in my suggestions. but perhaps the logic exists only to rationalize the fancy play. inconceivable!

[Aces McGee]

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I have no problem with the call...but I would have a problem with it if you were calling to defend your blind. You likely have two live cards here are are likley not a 3-1 dog.

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Ok, I clearly chose the wrong words here. It's still a "blind defense" in that I'm calling a raise out of the BB, but I certainly didn't see him as raising light to try and "steal" my blinds.

-McGee

[Aces McGee]

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This seems like overly FPS. You have 9-high, and the pot isn't big on the flop -- yet. Just check and call the flop *snip*

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I think that if you can't win at least some of the time unimproved, then preflop this becomes a lot closer to a fold than a call. I'm semibluffing the flop, sure, but I'm perfectly content to have him fold there.

-McGee

[Aces McGee]

Hi nolanfan

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On the flop, I think I kind of like betting out better. Some of this though is influenced by already knowing the turn card. With two hearts on board, I think if you bet and he raises as expected, that you're setting yourself up better for a big semi-bluff on the turn if another T, or any heart comes on the turn

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I don't like betting out because he's autoraising whatever he has there and it doesn't help to define his hand any. I was obviously hoping he'd simply call the checkraise and then fold to my turn lead.

I had planned on check calling the turn, but the perfect bluffing card came. My thoughts on why I bet: I figured that I was putting a bet in on the turn anyway, and with both the hearts coming and the board pairing I had picked up some fold equity. I felt I was unlikely to get raised because of the dangerous board.

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Against a better player, you may take it down with a check-raise more often than just the bet out on the turn. That T is an awesome card, and if you check-raise, he's going to have a very hard time continuing if he just has overcards. I think you have to be willing to fire again on the river though if a 4th heart, A or K doesn't hit.


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A checkraise didn't occur to me much at the time, to be honest. As I think about it now, there a couple of things that stand out to me:

1)Checkraising and then leading the river costs me 3 bets. Betting both the turn and the river costs me 2. I think both lines accomplish the same results roughly the same percentage of the time. Perhaps I am underestimating how often he folds to the checkraise, though.

2)I actually think the checkraise looks really suspicious. He has to know that the board got super dangerous on the turn and I'd be risking a checkthrough -- which would be pretty bad, in my opinion, giving infinite odds to a high heart. I see him calling BS on the checkraise a good portion of the time and calling down.

-McGee

[Nick C]

To me, UTG+1's flop 3-bet of your checkraise indicates he quite likely has a hand he won't release to a bet on the turn. He'll think he's quite likely beat (unless he just made a flush or has, say, ATs), but I think he'll probably call anyway. And obviously he'll at least call if he has a big heart, as he often will.

I don't know, though. If UTG+1 would 3-bet the flop checkraise with AKo (and no hearts), I guess there's a good chance he'll decide to give up now, if that happens to be what he has.

You're putting in a bet on the turn anyway, though, and I suppose the turn lead does set up a potential steal on the river versus, say, A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. That's not the hand I'd have my opponent on at this point, but some of you do play overcards more aggressively than I do when played back at, I think, and maybe UTG+1 does as well.

If UTG+1 has a hand like Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] instead, I think there's a decent chance he'll just call at this point (unless he decides to make a free-showdown raise or puts you on a semi-bluff and decides he can raise you for value), and maybe then you can steal on the river if another heart falls. I don't know.

[nolanfan34]

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Hi nolanfan

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On the flop, I think I kind of like betting out better. Some of this though is influenced by already knowing the turn card. With two hearts on board, I think if you bet and he raises as expected, that you're setting yourself up better for a big semi-bluff on the turn if another T, or any heart comes on the turn

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I don't like betting out because he's autoraising whatever he has there and it doesn't help to define his hand any. I was obviously hoping he'd simply call the checkraise and then fold to my turn lead.

I had planned on check calling the turn, but the perfect bluffing card came. My thoughts on why I bet: I figured that I was putting a bet in on the turn anyway, and with both the hearts coming and the board pairing I had picked up some fold equity. I felt I was unlikely to get raised because of the dangerous board.

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Against a better player, you may take it down with a check-raise more often than just the bet out on the turn. That T is an awesome card, and if you check-raise, he's going to have a very hard time continuing if he just has overcards. I think you have to be willing to fire again on the river though if a 4th heart, A or K doesn't hit.


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A checkraise didn't occur to me much at the time, to be honest. As I think about it now, there a couple of things that stand out to me:

1)Checkraising and then leading the river costs me 3 bets. Betting both the turn and the river costs me 2. I think both lines accomplish the same results roughly the same percentage of the time. Perhaps I am underestimating how often he folds to the checkraise, though.

2)I actually think the checkraise looks really suspicious. He has to know that the board got super dangerous on the turn and I'd be risking a checkthrough -- which would be pretty bad, in my opinion, giving infinite odds to a high heart. I see him calling BS on the checkraise a good portion of the time and calling down.

-McGee

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Good points all. Some good things to think about, I'm glad you responded. I still don't know what the best line is. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Aces McGee]

He folded the turn.

-McGee

[soweak.]

What happens if he plays back at you on the turn?