Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Tournament Poker > Multi-table Tournaments

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:11 AM
The Don The Don is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 399
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. The percentage of winning players above 20% is in the single digits in my estimation. Assuming we are talking about party of course. Much higher percentages are possiblee on the slow-structured Stars SNGs.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:16 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

AHHH,thank you for the insight copernicus. A little quick to judge on my part....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:35 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 22
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know how your simulator takes into account the fishy play at low buy in SnGs, but I assure you, 20% ROI is not "crushing the game".

[/ QUOTE ]

The simulator does not take into account, anything about fishy play. It just shows the 40 buy-in downswings are going to happen to even the best sng player.

20% ROI is CRUSHING the game. This is agreed upon by all high volume players in the SNG forum. Show me anyone who has an ROI of 25%+ for a sample of over 3000 SNGs, and ill offically declare myself an idiot.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:38 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 22
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should read more, it looks like it might do you some good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, I didn't read most of the replies to the OP. But following this bankroll plan and making fancy plays in the early rounds, is a sure way to go broke, fast. SNGs are meant to be played, weak-tight early, and agressivly late and like any form of poker, have a fairly high varaince.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:40 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
20% ROI is not "crushing the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. I think the number of people with an ROI higher than 20% is very very low.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that depends on what you define as "crushing the game" but I know 4 people including myself with an ROI of 20%+ for over a year, and mine is just over 30% for 15 months. I certainly don't think I'm an exceptional player overall, straightfoward HoH pretty much. However my shortstack and HU play is extremely good. If I'm close to the money I almost always make it, and if I get to HU, even with a substantial chip deficit, I win well more than my share.

Those are the two weakest areas of low buy in SnG players, and getting close to the money is a no brainer. If it werent for the occasional suck outs (which I define as a dominated hand after the flop) my ROI would be much higher, because those are the times I go out early.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:02 AM
good2cu good2cu is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 22
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have been running extremely well, depending on how many SNGs you play a month. Having 14 out of 15 months with a 20% ROI is abosultly amazing, and incredibly luckly. How many SNGs have you played over those 15 months? I also see that you 1-2 table, which i suppose its possible to have a 30% or so ROI at the 33s and under with "perfect play", but I still think that statiscally having 14 out of 15 months at 20%+ ROI is >1%.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:08 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He may have run well to hit the 33% but I have ranged from 20% to 40% ROI each month for 14 months of the last 15, with only one month at 10%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have been running extremely well, depending on how many SNGs you play a month. Having 14 out of 15 months with a 20% ROI is abosultly amazing, and incredibly luckly. How many SNGs have you played over those 15 months? I also see that you 1-2 table, which i suppose its possible to have a 30% or so ROI at the 33s and under with "perfect play", but I still think that statiscally having 14 out of 15 months at 20%+ ROI is >1%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play 150-200 a month depending on whats going on at work or if I'm playing live at a major event. (I spend a week at the WSOP, the WPF's at Foxwoods, and any large ones in AC. This year I hit the Bellagio for 4 days of the 5 Diamonds as well.) In those ROIs are only 30s and 50s. I play an occasional 100, but those results are much lower, which is why I dont play many of them. That may just be variance too, but I at least perceive the quality of play to be higher in the 100s.

My live SnG/satellite results are similar to online, though my records arent as complete, and of course, there are far fewer of them.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:06 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

these were on pokerstars too.. aren't considerably higher roi's possible on stars w/ their better structure and longer tournaments.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:01 PM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
these were on pokerstars too.. aren't considerably higher roi's possible on stars w/ their better structure and longer tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are primarily Stars and Doyles Room early on, migrating toward PokerRoom/FCP the last few months. I went there bonus whoring and the play is so weak I havent left.

Multis I still like Doyles Room the best.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:55 AM
Copernicus Copernicus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
Default Re: building a Tourney bankroll - from pscrew.com

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know how your simulator takes into account the fishy play at low buy in SnGs, but I assure you, 20% ROI is not "crushing the game".

[/ QUOTE ]

The simulator does not take into account, anything about fishy play. It just shows the 40 buy-in downswings are going to happen to even the best sng player.

20% ROI is CRUSHING the game. This is agreed upon by all high volume players in the SNG forum. Show me anyone who has an ROI of 25%+ for a sample of over 3000 SNGs, and ill offically declare myself an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, unless I go on a very bad run, prepare to declare yourself an idiot. I will have over 3000 SnGs in my data base by March or April, and since Im sitting at over 30% have a bit of cushion to drop to 25%.

If your simulator cant take into account differences in quality of play..ie its a basically a random number tracker, its worthless. What does a "40 buy-in downswing" mean? Groups of 40 that show no profit? I suppose thats not out of the question, and Ive never broken my results that way, but doubt that Ive got any near that length that show 0 or negative results.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.