MPTK. Who am I? Why am I here? - Page 2

car ramrod · #11 09-23-2005, 09:37 AM

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the risk of a 3-bet is lower than normal because villain has to respect the possibility that I could have AK.

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I like this, I don't think we get 3bet here very often, if we do we can fold. When we don't, we take the free look at the river.

numeri · #12 09-23-2005, 09:42 AM

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FLOP: Raise the flop, knock out SB, and take a free card on the turn or bet the turn and take a free showdown. If three-bet, peel one off and fold the turn UI.

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I like this. Someone mentioned we should fold if 3-bet. That's just crazy talk.

Redd · #13 09-23-2005, 09:42 AM

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Unless villain is unusually aggressive, I normally raise this flop to try for a free card. Even though villain probably has TP, the risk of a 3-bet is lower than normal because villain has to respect the possibility that I could have AK.

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If you get your free card and take it, do you usually fold on the riv if bet into then?

numeri · #14 09-23-2005, 09:44 AM

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the risk of a 3-bet is lower than normal because villain has to respect the possibility that I could have AK.

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I like this, I don't think we get 3bet here very often, if we do we can fold. When we don't, we take the free look at the river.

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Check the pot size again. We're getting odds to peel for our 5-outer.

numeri · #15 09-23-2005, 09:47 AM

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If you get your free card and take it, do you usually fold on the riv if bet into then?

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Does anyone use the reasoning here that the river K actually makes TP less likely? I think I call this river. It may very well be throwing money away, though. I'm definitely not convinced it's the best play.

jrz1972 · #16 09-23-2005, 09:47 AM

It would depend on villain, but yeah I would at least consider calling the river, especially if it were HU.

car ramrod · #17 09-23-2005, 09:51 AM

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Check the pot size again. We're getting odds to peel for our 5-outer.

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yea, if mp1 and sb come along, I think I would peel one more. I just meant to fold the turn ui.
Also, I agree that the river K makes it less likely villian holds one, I would call the river if I got there.

Redd · #18 09-23-2005, 10:09 AM

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If you get your free card and take it, do you usually fold on the riv if bet into then?

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Does anyone use the reasoning here that the river K actually makes TP less likely? I think I call this river. It may very well be throwing money away, though. I'm definitely not convinced it's the best play.

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Yeah, it definitely does make it less likely, but I'm not even concerned with what the river card is, just our general plan on the turn if we're checking behind. The reason I'm asking is because in these cases I'll usually raise flop/bet turn/free showdown because it costs the same but I get control of the hand and a little bit of fold equity/protection value. I don't get what reasonable advantage a free card gets us when we're playing with what may be the best hand.

#19 09-23-2005, 10:39 AM

(blind, but I'm a n00b)

Raise the flop, call a 3-bet, fold if unimproved and bet into on the turn. If no flop 3-bet, assume you are the lone top pair here. Even the donks usually bet out with any pair on the flop, so you need to find out where you're at.

After a flop 3-bet, you'll be getting 6.5 to 1 to call a turn bet. You have maybe 5 outs, but they aren't clean considering the SB is following along and EP limpers are likely to have an A. I think it's a fold (edit: if bet into that is).

Nick Royale · #20 09-23-2005, 11:09 AM

This is the way I would play it, and how it would change with different reads:

Readless:
Raise the flop, bet the turn and take a free sd. If we get check/raised on the turn we will rarely be giving up many outs (3 at most, pretty often we're drawing dead). If it's still 4 ways on the turn I would take the free card, though.

If flop bettor is passive:
I'll call the flop and fold the turn UI.

If flop bettor is aggressive:
Tricky, I think I might like the line OP took.

I don't like taking the free card on the turn (readless) since we might have the best hand (a higher percentage than most seems to think on the flop) and I would like people drawing to straights to pay or fold. Taking a free card and folding to a river bet is folding the best hand too often IMO. We're actually inducing a bluff, but fold even though we have a fair hand. Taking a freecard and calling the river is worse than betting for a free sd. (making draws pay + risking to fold outs)>(inducing a bluff + and letting hands draw for free)>(taking a free card + maybe get bluffed from a pot you would have won)