Warning from Party

[TStoneMBD]

wow if everything you say is true thats ridiculous that party can do that to you. i have pokeredge installed on my harddrive and party has never contacted me about it.

its more likely that you accidentally had pokeredge open while playing on party or that you had poker edge running and you just opened up party without playing on it. you need to be careful about that sort of thing especially since youve already been warned.

[mc1]

Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

[Bradyams]

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Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

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Online poker is a whole different beast. Since you are using a computer you have access to many different programs and what not. The way I see it is any smart player who wants to make money (since that's what this game is all about) will use any means necessary to help them win. If a site allows Pokeredge then I say go ahead and use it. They allow it so if you want to make money then use it to your advantage.

However, if a site does not allow it then I believe it is cheating if you somehow find a way to use it.

All sites I know of allow PT, and PokerAce, and those are great tools that I can use to my advantage, and my opponents could as well if they wanted. Therefore I will use them. If pokersites ever decide to ban these programs then it would not be fair of me to use them if I knew how to without getting caught so I wouldn't.

[Zetack]

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Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

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Online poker is a whole different beast. Since you are using a computer you have access to many different programs and what not. The way I see it is any smart player who wants to make money (since that's what this game is all about) will use any means necessary to help them win. If a site allows Pokeredge then I say go ahead and use it. They allow it so if you want to make money then use it to your advantage.

However, if a site does not allow it then I believe it is cheating if you somehow find a way to use it.

All sites I know of allow PT, and PokerAce, and those are great tools that I can use to my advantage, and my opponents could as well if they wanted. Therefore I will use them. If pokersites ever decide to ban these programs then it would not be fair of me to use them if I knew how to without getting caught so I wouldn't.

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I agree that poker online is a different beast.

For instance I think the one player to a hand rule shouldn't apply to online play. If you want to sit there with six of your frat brothers sitting behind you discussing how to play your hand I have not problem with that. If you're gonna teach your girlfriend to play and offer he pointers while she plays online, (as long as you aren't at the same table) I have no problem with that either.

I have no opinion on pokeredge though.

--Zetack

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wow if everything you say is true thats ridiculous that party can do that to you. i have pokeredge installed on my harddrive and party has never contacted me about it.


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I'll back that up, I've only had them bug me when PokerEdge was running. I don't use it on Party any more. However, Party could easily decide having it installed is against their rules. Bogus, but they could.

However, I don't play Party period any more because I got a 2nd warning (wasn't running anything, not even PT) about using PokerProphesy which I don't own, never downloaded, never even went to their website.

Party's detection software gets false positives and I decided I wasn't willing to risk losing my bankroll due to a false positive.

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Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

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LOL, the classic "My advantage isn't cheating, but your's is" argument.

I've said before, if sites want to ban it, that's their perogative. Trying to somehow claim one method of datamining is moral while others are immoral strikes me as ludicrous.

People data mine all the time for hands they don't play. You can swap PT databases. You could set up a server to request hand histories to augment datamining.

If have 300 hands on someone via PT that's moral apparently and not worthy of banning (despite the fact I just had my system watch tables for 3 hours without me), but if I have 300 hands on someone via PokerEdge, somehow thats immoral.

Pot meet kettle.

[bigfishead]

Wow, you guys just refuse to see the "whys and what" party has a problem with.

Pokeredge is 3rd party information...in a collusionary manner.

Pokertracker is YOUR own information (obviously with the exception of file sharing with others) that you "witnessed".
All players gather information when playing on a table. Be it live B&M or online. Every hand is information. How we choose to use this information is up to us. Party as such has no problem with that. I've seen players in live games taking notes. This isnt "illegal" nor unethical. It's just smart poker. "nitty" at times maybe, but not unethical.

And PT does no good for you in data mining on Stars since unless the hands are shown with the loser showing down his hand you have incomplete information. Not completely useless for datamining but you get what I mean. Stars is being a little more protective by not allowing table watchers to see both hands when the loser doesnt show.

The basic idea with these programs and the T&C's is that you can gather your own information. They have no problem with that. But to "collude" in gathering information by using information others gathered or to share information with others is obviously and strictly forbidden.

I'm perfectly happy knowing they have access to my hard drive. I agreed to this on the T&C's when opening an acct. You know those T&C's that we never read but just check the box marked "I Accept".

I did purchase PokerEdge. I used it for months. It gave me the quick info I wanted for game selection in ring games. However, when I got the warning, I then realized since party was obviously making a very strong effort to keep the games clean I would be better off doing my own datamining, and completely uninstalled the PE software.

Kudos to Party for openly and actively doing this. Yes I lost out on $100 for my purchase of PE. Too bad. Hopefully, Stars follows suit. Too bad it aint possible for them to track whether we personally datamined PT info or imported it from someone elses PT database.

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Pokeredge is 3rd party information...in a collusionary manner.


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Collusion is making decisions by knowing cards you can't know about the hand in progress. PokerEdge (or any datamining tool for that matter) isn't remotely related to collusion.

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Pokertracker is YOUR own information


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It might be. It might you simply requested hand histories for all sorts of hands, or swapped with friends, or used a site that people can dump histories to in order to share indirectly.

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And PT does no good for you in data mining on Stars since unless the hands are shown with the loser showing down his hand you have incomplete information.


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Totally clueless statement. The most useful info is about patterns of play that have nothing to do with showdown. What's his VPIP? How often did he try to steal? All of that data is there to be had regardless of if they see showdown. Seeing the showdown hands is the least valuable thing to me about datamining.

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But to "collude" in gathering information by using information others gathered or to share information with others is obviously and strictly forbidden.


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No where does Party say you can't share hand histories.

Again, you also completely misunderstand the word collude in the context of poker. By your definition any and every hand posting to 2+2 that includes a hand history # in it is collusion as you're making that hand available in a central place. Though, party makes all hands available to anyone through HH requests anyway, so perhaps Party is colluding with everyone?

As for sharing my hand histories, it's my information, I'll share it with whoever the heck I want. Party has no say in who I can give my hand histories to. If I and a bunch of others all choose to share our hands and pay someone $10/month to host, they're our hands to share.

BTW, you'd best not ever verbally describe hands with a friend either. You'll be sharing information about opponents and thus be "colluding" and cheating.

You've picked an arbitrary spot in the large field of shades of grey to draw a line and say "this is wrong", "my way is fine". You can feel however you want about it, but that doesn't mean your position is even remotely the definitive statement on the issue.

Alright, so I get an email back from Party saying it was not because I had PE installed, but because I looked myself up on their website just for kicks. Back to PE though, I think it is kinda scammy what they do. On their website it was a warning for all the sites it is illegal at, except poker stars. I remember about two months ago when they came out with the software for Stars, theuy said they reached and agreement with stars for it to be allowed there. I don't think it is right to take someones money without telling them what you are selling them is illegeal everywhere. Besides the major edge it gives you at a donkish table, I have had nothing but problems with PE. Just finished the uninstall.....

[jman220]

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Alright, so I get an email back from Party saying it was not because I had PE installed, but because I looked myself up on their website just for kicks.

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Huh?