I KNOW it's the Devil's Hand......

[einbert]

I really don't like raising this flop.

[phish]

The implication I'm hearing from this thread is that KJ is not a strong enough hand to defend the big blind with against a legitimate raise. Wow, you guys must play a totally different game from what I know. Sounds like you're giving up way too much there, in my opinion.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
The implication I'm hearing from this thread is that KJ is not a strong enough hand to defend the big blind with against a legitimate raise. Wow, you guys must play a totally different game from what I know. Sounds like you're giving up way too much there, in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not what I was implying at all.

[vmacosta]

I vote call the flop. Bet out on K turn or c/r J turn, otherwise check and call. River depends heavily on opponent and how he thinks of you. Suffice to say that if he checks turn, a bet/fold line on river is usually mandatory, and if you c/c turn, I'd often just c/c river again.

If villain is the type to open his range up quite a bit in LP, then he's probably used to being c/r'ed on the flop a fair amount. Thus, he may have decided to take a stand with something like QJ with bd flush draw, QQ-TT, or any pair on board. If this is the case, we'd rather not give a free card, but note that he's already stuck in 3 sb with a weak draw. Thus if we look like we're shutting down, he will probably bet turn for us, hoping to fold us. If he checks behind, well then he paid 3 sb for his weak draw instead of the 4 he'd have paid by calling our flop c/r and turn lead, and he'll usually only get 1 more BB out of us on the river if he hit anyway (when we bet/fold). If he has a hand like Kx and doesn't make 2pair, we'll be annoyed that we didn't quite extract the maximum but I think this is offset by the times when our passivity causes us to stay for a J river that snaps his AA/AK/KQ.

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
fourbet the flop.
bet/fold the turn.
bet/fold the river.

if he goes five on the flop, call and fold turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]


Playing live this would be my line. When you fourbet its goona freeze him no matter what he has, and you should be able to tell if its a "[censored] maybe my ak is no good" or [censored] "I gotta pay him off with 88."

[steveyz]

If villian is the type that likes to raise/3-bet flop for a free turn, then donk bet the turn. If he likes to check through river, donk the river. Basically just make sure at least one bet goes in every street unless the board gets really scary or something.

Call the three bet, check fold UI on the turn.

[BoxTree]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the three bet, check fold UI on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see this line as vastly worse than

a) 4-bet flop, bet/fold turn, bet/fold river, and

b) call down.

In what way(s) is your line better?

Because more times than not KJ is paying off a better hand the whole way. He check raises from upfront, and then gets 3 -bet. What is he beating at this point?

According to Advanced hold'em this is one of the hands that pays off a lot....


He can beat QQ, AQ, JJ, 10-10, He's nearly dead to AK KQ AA KK and all sets.


I'm just going by what sklansky says about trouble hands here OOP....

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
.....yet I play it anyway. Please flame me.
Canterbury 15/30 9 handed. Villain here will open up his range quite a bit in LP.
one monkey limps in MP. Villain raises in the CO. I call in the BB with KJo.

Flop 3 ways: K92r
I check, monkey checks, villain bets, I raise, monkey folds, villain 3-bets. What's my line the rest of the way?

[/ QUOTE ]

if this was me in your spot i could have a small pair vs. a wide range villian in LP or T9s or something like that so a flop 3bet is correct. id also call down with the KJ here so id just acll it down. try to use your powers of observation on the turn and see if he's happy with your call. a river bet may be in order.

Barron