Is this an easy call?

mxer7734 · #1 08-20-2005, 05:57 PM

I just sat down at the table so no real reads. It's quite possibe that villian was only betting a J and I had 6 outs to the A or Q but he could have had J Q or J 10 and I could have hit my pair and still lost. Add that to the fact that If I hit my 10 it still wouldnt be the nuts (3 outs at most because also theres a full house possibilty). Is this an easy call or an automatic fold?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
4 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

bozlax · #2 08-20-2005, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...he could have had J Q or J 10 and I could have hit my pair and still lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against either of those hands, if you catch an ace or a queen you win. Add to that you have a backdoor draw to a flush and a gutshot to the straight, both to the nuts, and I think folding is a gigantic mistake.

The bigger question is, do you raise to get rid of SB, or just call? I would peel one and see what the turn brings, but that's just me.

irishpint · #3 08-20-2005, 06:13 PM

well assuming no K (which we can't always do...) you have 3 Q, 3 A, a gutshot and a backdoor nut flush. when playing short handed like this i like to pretend the top card isn't there, otherwise i find myself folding too often.

we have to options:
call and fold the turn UI if bet into again
raise- take a free turn card if we need it, and fold to a turn bet or river bet UI.

Since the pot is small here I call- SB is more than welcome to come w/ a J and if he has a K he's not going anywhere and we're about to be 3bet. If we dont improve we can fold the turn and we only spent one SB.

detruncate · #4 08-20-2005, 08:38 PM

Yes, this is an easy call. You don't much care if SB overcalls unless you have the best hand -- the parlay of improving + giving SB a redraw shouldn't be a major concern in this modest pot. I could see raising for a free card, but we probably make more from SB calling than we save.

BB could be betting a lot of hands here: a J, a flush draw, a straight draw, a K, a smaller PP, a bluff. The only hand you really don't like is a K, and even then you're usually getting at least 8:1 on your nut gutshot + BD flush draws with good implied odds.

aK13 · #5 08-20-2005, 09:10 PM

It's not easy, but calling is probably better.

You're getting 8 to 1 immediate, and unless he has KK/JJ (unlikely since he didn't 3bet preflop) or KJ, you're drawing very live, even against a K. You have 3 clean outs to a straight, probably 1 for your backdoor nut flush, and maybe 2 for your A and Q outs, so 6 total getting 8:1 immediate.

Fryguy · #6 08-22-2005, 12:38 AM

I think calling is probably right here too. I don't really like raising a hand where a large part of the reason for continuing are backdoor draws.

Bigger question is what do you do if SB checkraises? I think I'd probably look at the turn for one more bet, and lay down UI.

GTSamIAm · #7 08-22-2005, 12:46 AM

Call and consider raising. You're possibly ahead, and if you're not, you're getting implied odds from the backdoor flush draw and gutshot.

grjr · #8 08-22-2005, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call and consider raising. You're possibly ahead, and if you're not, you're getting implied odds from the backdoor flush draw and gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how many times we're ahead here when the BB bets into the preflop raiser on this board. In my experience it's mostly never unless we've seen the BB have a habit of betting into scary boards.

I guess we can call one on the flop but I think if we catch anything but a ten we will be burning money. Even then we're not guaranteed anything since KJ would be a likely hand to call a raise from the BB.

Eh, I liked the fold when I first saw it and I just talked myself back into it. Keep an eye on BB for this kind of behavior though.

GTSamIAm · #9 08-22-2005, 11:59 AM

I'm not saying raise often. I'm saying against some players it will be profitable. Some examples are weak players, players who like to check-raise the turn, etc, etc. These require reads, of course. Nearly always at least call.

imported_The Vibesman · #10 08-22-2005, 12:07 PM

I am usually at least calling, as I figure the best villain has is a Jack, and I am drawing to 6 outs. If he has you reverse dominated with QJ or AJ, his jacks are counterfeited when you make two pair, so yhig. I don't see where you get hurt if he has JT.

Some people at low levels are kind of donkish out of the BB, they like to call raises and then lead out at scary boards...they stole a couple of pots like that once, and do it a lot now...if I think BB is this kind of person, I raise to get SB out and try to take it down quick.