Choose your seat (complex) - Page 7

Victor · #61 12-07-2005, 02:35 PM

clearly we would prefer to play against the loose retarded player over the decent player.

however, my point was that the best opponent is one who folds too much in the bb.

Wynton · #62 12-07-2005, 03:14 PM

Earlier, I commented about how I hate having the LP player to my right. But it so happened that I was just playing at a table with a VERY LP diretly to my right, and there was one clear benefit:

Everytime I was in the BB, this guy always limped. And because the rest of the table was not aggressive and willing to raise, I always got to see the flop.

On the other hand, maybe this just means that the entire table was passive enough to make up for any disadvantage of the LP being to my right.

#63 12-07-2005, 04:17 PM

A loose-passive is a lot different than a tight-passive. You ALWAYS want a loose-passive on your right. Tight-passives go on the left.

ddubois · #64 12-07-2005, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that he has played more than 18 of his last 39 hands in our first observations of him means he is probably a bit looser than he should be. Our read could be completely off, and he might end up being a regular, or even tight player, but I think it is better to add probabilities to his stats, rather than just call them null and void. I don't know how to properly assess this probability, but I am sure it is possible somehow.

Just from my random speculation, I would guess that there is a only a 15% chance that his VPIP is under 20, 40% chance his VPIP is between 20-35, 25% chance his VPIP is 35-45, and 15% chance his VPIP is 45-55, and 5% chance his VPIP is over 55. These are just guesses, but I think there is a decent chance he is a loose player, even after only 39 hands.

If you had a player pegged at 85 VPIP after only 20 hands, would you think that meant anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...e=0#Post2852240

I calculate 90% confidence is true VPIP is between 31 and 60.

Wynton · #65 12-07-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A loose-passive is a lot different than a tight-passive. You ALWAYS want a loose-passive on your right. Tight-passives go on the left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I misspoke. I meant I hate having the LP on my left, except that it was working out ok at that particular table.

Joe Tall · #66 12-07-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A loose-passive is a lot different than a tight-passive. You ALWAYS want a loose-passive on your right. Tight-passives go on the left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Passive players, loose or tight, can go anywhere. What they do is call because that's just what they like to do, call. It's aggressives that we want such position. Tight on our left and loose on our right.

Joe Tall · #67 12-07-2005, 04:53 PM

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Joe Tall says that we would prefer the loose one. I think he normally is right. We want loose-passive players in every position, also in the blinds.

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I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] kiddo.

Joe Tall · #68 12-07-2005, 05:01 PM

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It's both. Many hands that a 43% ASB will steal with will show a profit > 0 big bets but < 0.75 big bets if the person in the big blind defends. Similarly, many hands that the person in the big blind defends with will show a loss of < 0.5 big bets, meaning we (the button stealer) prefer he folds those hands, but even if he calls we make more than 0 big bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's this .75BB over and over? We can't think of it as SB+BB = .75, as positional advantage, postflop skill and implied odds blow this number out of estimation.

It's not both. You either have a profitable situtaion or you don't. I like the profitable situation I have defined in this thread and I'm trying to point it out.

Entity · #69 12-07-2005, 05:26 PM

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We should sit between 3-4. The guy in seat 5 is going to feel like he got drunk in the bar and wound up knifed, robbed, violated and left for dead by the dumpster in the back alley at the end of the session. Tight passive guy who never bluffs in the big blind when we are the button? He will talk about the session in therapy. And seat 2's ultra aggression when he is the button and I am the big blind doesn't scare me really, just have to figure out where he is going to dump the chips, on the flop or on the turn.

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I like your plan but I also really [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] having a tight passive guy in the SB when I raise and a loose passive guy who misses bets in the BB. So I take between 4-5 and feel very happy there.

Rob

Victor · #70 12-07-2005, 06:44 PM

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We can't think of it as SB+BB = .75, as positional advantage, postflop skill and implied odds blow this number out of estimation.

[/ QUOTE ]

hi joe, are you saying that position and skill will allow us to make greater than .75 bb with most hands if the poor playing defender call?

i totally disagree unless the defender is extremely bad. and i mean, mind boggling like worst player eva bad. a loose passive player that will call pf with any 2 hands and all to the river with low pair is NOT bad enough imo.