continuing 300 Bb thread

[thejameser]

he has a funny last name but this feller is kind of right. serendipity!

[J.A.Sucker]

It depends. What you have to ask yourself is "why are they morons?" Things aren't always what they seem. I suspect that many people here wouldn't know the perfect poker game if it bit them in the a$s.

[1800GAMBLER]

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anyone experiencing a 300 bb downswing isnt likely to have been playing a winning game during that time.

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Isn't likely means > 50%? yet even this is crazy because it lacks details, what if the average mid high poster has played for more than 2 years? in 2 years of 19bb/100h SD and 1.5b/100h WR you think less than 50% have not had 300 bb down swings? They could have been probably playing games in which they are 2bb/100h, yet they were still winners.

I'm not very good at pool, i mostly play against friends and they are even worse. Tonight after i taken a shot, i slowly tried to place it infront of my ball to create a difficult shot for my friend but the table shifted (bad table), the ball missed and i was dissappointed at myself for not taking into considering the chance of it being a shitty table (most), yet it was pointless, i was still +EV in that game yet i did add another factor of luck that i wouldn't have if i was a better player.

This is all pointless as you obviously know this and are encouraging us to stay in great games rather than good games. I guess i just got it.

[Lawrence Ng]

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Then the game is probably not quite as good as we think it is. Mason wrote about this in, I think, his first book of essays, that games with giant pots may not be as good as games with medium or medium-large pots. No question, though, that variance will be greater in wilder games than in tighter games.

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So should you really be thinking about getting up from a game populated by poker morons, just because you're stuck?

-Scott

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Err did you read this earlier post by Andy?

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If I understand Ray's point, it's that if you lose that much in a session, you're understanding of the game is probably flawed and you're probably not playiing as well as you think for the given circumstances. It's the rare player indeed who has a clear head when significantly stuck.

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[autobet]

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So should you really be thinking about getting up from a game populated by poker morons, just because you're stuck?



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I think what they are saying you shouldn't be in the game in the first place. I would agree if someone was on a short bankroll.

But when I'm in a game where several players are playing almost every hand, calling three bets cold with Q5 suited, and capping with A8 offsuit in six way pots I think I've found a good spot to "invest". It's true playing in these games maximizes you chance of having huge downswings, but if you understand the strategy adjustments and have an adequate banroll then come close to mazimizing your earnings in the long run.

[Lestat]

I actually don't agree with this. I think that if you are stuck like a pig in a good game and it has an effect on your play then:

Your not truly an expert or a professional, or...

You are playing over your bankroll.

I can honestly say that I don't care how much I'm stuck. I will make a realistic, honest assessment of the game I'm in and about my own play. I have no loss limit at what I'll give a good game, just as I have no stop limit for a big win. I try not to fool myself. If I'm playing poorly, I leave. The game will be there tomorrow.

[SoBeDude]

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Then the game is probably not quite as good as we think it is. Mason wrote about this in, I think, his first book of essays, that games with giant pots may not be as good as games with medium or medium-large pots. No question, though, that variance will be greater in wilder games than in tighter games.

[/ QUOTE ]

So should you really be thinking about getting up from a game populated by poker morons, just because you're stuck?

-Scott

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Err did you read this earlier post by Andy?

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If I understand Ray's point, it's that if you lose that much in a session, you're understanding of the game is probably flawed and you're probably not playiing as well as you think for the given circumstances. It's the rare player indeed who has a clear head when significantly stuck.

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Yes I read it. And yes, there have been times when I thought the game was good, and I was stuck, and I snapped out of it and got up, realizing me and the game weren't in sync.

But in this specific example, I really felt the game was good. I felt I had made the correct adjustments to the game and that I was playing well, just getting outdrawn left and right.

And yes, the players calling 3 cold with J3s and going runner runner flush when he had no pair no draw on the flop is a poker moron.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

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So should you really be thinking about getting up from a game populated by poker morons, just because you're stuck?



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I think what they are saying you shouldn't be in the game in the first place. I would agree if someone was on a short bankroll.

But when I'm in a game where several players are playing almost every hand, calling three bets cold with Q5 suited, and capping with A8 offsuit in six way pots I think I've found a good spot to "invest". It's true playing in these games maximizes you chance of having huge downswings, but if you understand the strategy adjustments and have an adequate banroll then come close to mazimizing your earnings in the long run.

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But why shouldn't I be in the game? My bankroll is fine and was not in jeapordy. I was clearly a better player than most of the field. I was playing well. Yet I still a dropped a proportional fortune in that game.

And please remember this was to Ray's comment of never losing more than 50BBs in a game. I can't imagine someone playing as long as him not having run in to a situation like the one I did. And if he did, did he get up early and why? and was doing so the right move?

-Scott

[John Ho]

Agreed. If you are in a game like that then you should probably stay.

However, I will say that I know many solid, winning poker players who can not handle being in a game like that because they are not proficient in handling multiway pots with players who have any two cards. They miss bets on scary boards when everyone shows weakness and get check raised way too much with big cards on a nothing flop because even the donkeys can guess where they are in a hand.

This is not to say they will lose in the long run in games like this. But I've found many of them have better EV in slower, more predictable games. It's like they get so frustrated and confused they go on autopilot and stop adjusting for the game and different players. I can't count the number of times I've seen winning, solid players start calling raises and bets from the most passive players in the world all the way to the river only to be shown a monster.

[John Ho]

I've played limit and no limit holdem with Ray at least 10 times. The guy just does not lose. I remember him leaving once because he was even after 3 hours of no limit and being irritated about it. Otherwise he always won.

I think it's crazy to lose 50 BB in one limit session. I've never sat in a game that was so much fatter than the soft games you find everywhere that I should stay if I was getting run over like that. Now if it's something crazy like 4 betting the turn multiple times with the nuts only to watch people catch on the river every time you should stay. But most of the time I've seen good players lost big money is because they start playing like the fish - they see their 2 cards, like their hand, but have no read on what anyone else is playing so can't maximize wins/minimize losses like a good player should.

I think it comes down to ego. It's somewhat humiliating to walk away from a table full of idiots having lost your ass but sometimes you just gotta do it if you have no control at all over the game.