Got knocked out following HOH advice

[MeanGreenTT]

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HOH Is a dangerous book..

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Please, elaborate.

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I was getting ready to ask the same thing...

[curtains]

Why is everyone so excited to move allin with KQs while having over 10x the BB? I would never do this UTG at a full table, in late position I probably would, but this isn't some kind of no brainer to risk your tournament life with KQs to go from 8200 chips to 9400 chips.

Anyway it depends heavily on position, and I have no idea what MP means in terms of how many off the button we are. There is a difference between 2,3 or 4 seats off the button that actually means something with borderline types of hands.

From 3 off the button I'm not open pushing KQs here, I think it's a losing play in most scenarios.

Note that I would likely move allin with 5000-6000 chips, I would usually make a normal raise to about 2000-2400 with 10k+ chips, but I would often fold with 7500-8500 chips, assuming we are talking about being 3 off the button. Things change once we are two off the button ever so slightly, but enough to change my play depending on my chip count, thus using the term "Im in MP" isn't accurate enough for me.

Of course all of the above depends on some other factors as well, such as tightness of opponents, their chip counts and so on, I'm just talking about default situations.

[curtains]

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You will get knocked out a lot pushing this way, but it is better than being blinded out.

Even UTG, I would push here with the big suited connector. It's close UTG with no ante.

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I don't think it's close at all, I think pushing for over 10x the BB UTG at a full table with KQs is clearly -EV.

[curtains]

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Seems to be a consensus here, but more info:

my stack was below average for the tournament.
I was in middle position.

Button called me with QQ.

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el_grande, if a top professional was talking about this hand and wondering about theoretical advice, they would never say they are in "middle position". They would say exactly how many seats off the button they are. Without that info it's very hard to give any type of reliable answer. Be as specific as possible when asking for advice if you want to get good advice.

[McMelchior]

In his inflection point chapter Harrington does not recommend pushing any two with an M of 7. Try reading it again. If you re-read his problems you'll see that he doesn't even recommend pushing with an M of 6. He's talking about 5 or below.

There's a world of difference between sitting with more than 10 x BB and with 7 x BB. You have time to wait for a better hand or position.

Your move might be correct or not, but it's not correct to blame HOH2 for it.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[fnurt]

10xBB is kind of a no-man's land, because you don't have much room to make a smaller raise, and pushing risks too many chips when you have a marginal hand.

I agree with curtains that there are many hands I fold with 10xBB that I would open-raise with if I had more or fewer chips.

At a tight table, though, I open this KQs for a standard raise of 2.5-3BB, and fold to a reraise. Note that your raise does not necessarily cry out "Hey! Feel free to push me off this hand!" because a raise of less than all-in from a short stack can also look suspiciously like a big hand. Since the table is tight, I think it's a good idea to try and pick up the blinds to get out of no-man's land.

[skoal2k4]

I can't speak in regards to inflection points... sorry

To all the people that say pushing is the only way to go... can you explain to me why making a 3xBB raise isn't an option?

[betgo]

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At a tight table, though, I open this KQs for a standard raise of 2.5-3BB, and fold to a reraise.

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I think it is OK to raise 2.5xBB, but I would call a reraise. You have big pot odds at this point, and a reraise could be JJ or maybe a resteal.

You could limp or miniraise and decide what to do if you get action. If you miniraise, you could call or fold to a reraise based on the opponent and his position.

The push with KQs from mid position with no ante is EV+, but it is not hugely EV+. You will bust out a lot, but you will bust out a lot if you play the hand other ways. I think the push is best, but a miniraise is playable.

[fnurt]

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At a tight table, though, I open this KQs for a standard raise of 2.5-3BB, and fold to a reraise.

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I think it is OK to raise 2.5xBB, but I would call a reraise. You have big pot odds at this point, and a reraise could be JJ or maybe a resteal.

You could limp or miniraise and decide what to do if you get action. If you miniraise, you could call or fold to a reraise based on the opponent and his position.

The push with KQs from mid position with no ante is EV+, but it is not hugely EV+. You will bust out a lot, but you will bust out a lot if you play the hand other ways. I think the push is best, but a miniraise is playable.

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That's reasonable, although I dunno. It really depends on what it means to have a tight table, and what type of hands people are showing down. If someone who hasn't gotten involved in many pots is the one who makes the reraise, personally I would get out of the way.

This brings up a very interesting point, however. Often it is said "if you're going to call a reraise, just push in the first place, to increase your fold equity." This isn't always good advice. The point is that if you push, you will always be behind when you get called, and usually way behind. But if you make a smaller raise, depending on the players at your table, you stand a much greater chance of getting action from a lesser hand. For example, someone who wouldn't call your push with 66 could still reraise you all-in with that hand. Again, this takes us back to the nature of the table, and what you can expect from the players still to act. I don't think there's a specific "right" play for KQs in middle position.

[Sluss]

You must be aware of the hand range that is calling in this spot to know whether you should be pushing with 10x the BB.

In a $5 PP you could easily be getting called by AA-22, any ace, KQ, KJ, K10 and QJ.

Because of the wide calling range I would be more likely to raise here to 2.5 at a tight table with slightly more than 10x the BB. This close to the bubble there is a good shot that you might get a call with QQ and then a scary check/fold when an ace hits the board.

Don't blame Harrington he only provides ideas not a manual. Read books for ideas and incorporate them into your thinking.