QQ

[2PAUL2]

you would fold getting 4/1?

i would like this line if his stack was deeper an i could fold to a turn push.

as to his actual stack size i think the consesus saying raise the flop are probably right.

paul

[Sifmole]

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I may raise the turn to $60 and fold unimproved to further action if I think I'm ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your line is to lose just as much but not get a showdown?

How much does it mitigate the situation that YOU know there is no way he could have the royal b/c you hold the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

My answer - none.

Can we play heads up?

[2PAUL2]

i read this board alot an challenging soah to a heads up match would not be +ev. im pretty sure he got confused with stack sizes as hes one of the best posters on here.

paul

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
you would fold getting 4/1?

i would like this line if his stack was deeper an i could fold to a turn push.

as to his actual stack size i think the consesus saying raise the flop are probably right.

paul

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise the flop he folds hands that are way behind and continues with hands that either beat you or have outs against you. The pot will be huge and you will have no idea what cards you want to see on the turn and river. If a heart comes will you push the turn? What about a queen? If you check the turn, do you call him on the river? You have no idea which cards make his hand. Or maybe he had you on the flop... you don't know. And it will likely cost you your stack to find the answer.

If you raise the turn and he pushes then you can fold. He certainly has you beaten and your gutshot may not even be clean. So you give up a two outer if you're behind, but you force him off of a five-outer if you're ahead or you charge him more to draw at some sort of straight/flush combo draw. If you're usually ahead in this spot then it seems you get the best end of the deal. Although this is not factoring in the times that he may bet again on the river with the worst hand. But do you really want to call a big bet on the end? It's actually bad for you if he'll bet these hands again, because that would make his bluffing percentage fairly close to optimal according to game theory (the majority of hands firing the third barrel can beat an overpair). That is not a profitable situation for you.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
i read this board alot an challenging soah to a heads up match would not be +ev. im pretty sure he got confused with stack sizes as hes one of the best posters on here.

paul

[/ QUOTE ]

My line may work better if he were deeper, but after he bets the turn he still has $90 left... I'm assuming he is not going to shove that in the pot just for the hell of it? Getting 4:1 to call may sound good, but how often do you expect to win if he puses there? His stats look a lot like mine and if I pushed there I'd have the best hand more than 90% of the time and a straight flush draw the rest of the time. Now if your read on him says he is likely to push with a worse hand and you cannot fold to him, then sure, just call him down... but from your description of him I've assumed that if all his money goes in the pot on the turn, he can beat a pair.

[2PAUL2]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise the flop he folds hands that are way behind and continues with hands that either beat you or have outs against you

[/ QUOTE ]

this was my thinking. it just seems like i might as well have 72o if i raise flop.

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise the turn and he pushes then you can fold. He certainly has you beaten and your gutshot may not even be clean.

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i think uve sold me on raising the turn. its just it would suck to fold for 50 in a 190 pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Although this is not factoring in the times that he may bet again on the river with the worst hand.

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if he calls a raise on the turn i am dead against this player. he would drop draws an all made hands i beat so river would be easy fold.

thanks

paul

[2PAUL2]

[ QUOTE ]
My line may work better if he were deeper, but after he bets the turn he still has $90 left... I'm assuming he is not going to shove that in the pot just for the hell of it? Getting 4:1 to call may sound good, but how often do you expect to win if he puses there? His stats look a lot like mine and if I pushed there I'd have the best hand more than 90% of the time and a straight flush draw the rest of the time. Now if your read on him says he is likely to push with a worse hand and you cannot fold to him, then sure, just call him down... but from your description of him I've assumed that if all his money goes in the pot on the turn, he can beat a pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

thanks this makes sense

paul

[KowCiller]

[ QUOTE ]
Can we play heads up?

[/ QUOTE ]

You would get obliterated