about Kerry's service in Vietnam, new questions have arisen

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Just more lies from the Northeastern Elite Liberal Establishment who control all media.

[Utah]

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I'm sick of this pisssing contest because this stuff is just typical republican bs to try and make a Kerry asset into a negative.

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I am not a republican and I am not a Bush supporter. So, to me, and others, this isnt just Republican B.S. Recent polls reflect this is swaying voters.

Lets look at what we know shall we:

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Vietnam War was arguably the biggest foreign policy mistake in the history of the country.

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Um, that is an opinion, not a statement of fact (even if I agree with it).

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While a lot of us used student deferrments, National Guard, Canada, CO status to avoid going over there, he went.

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What we know is that he did serve, as so did many many others. What is still in question is whether he left early through bogus purple hearts. There is also evidence that Kerry sought a deferrment. If one gets credit for serving over someone who didnt serve, wouldnt it be logical to "demerit" someone who left early versus someone who served their full term?

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While he was over there serving, a lot of us College students and others protested against the war. We were branded pot smoking hippie commie loving cowards who hated their own country

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fact. But so what?

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When Kerry got home, knowing that the War was a huge mistake became a vocal leader of Vietnam Veterans against the War. It was at this point that the anti-war efforts finally turned the corner and had some effect on changing our governments failed policy. This took courage and leadership.

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What we do know is that Kerry protested against the war and testified to congress. We dont know why he did it. He could have easily done it out of political opportunism - how do you know he didnt?

other facts:
1) Kerry presented very wrong facts about his Cambodian Christmas "experience" - even though he claimed they were seared in his memory
2) Kerry's commander and the his immediate superior on the boat during the first purple heart incident didnt think he deserved a purple heart
3) Kerry has admitted to war crimes
4) Kerry said that 250 Vets told him about atrocities - however, Kerry cannot provide information on a single atrocity
5) Kerry has not released all his war records
6) There are vets, not all republicans or conservatives, that dispute Kerry's assertions of fact
7) Kerry has played politics with his Vietman experience

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1) Kerry presented very wrong facts about his Cambodian Christmas "experience" - even though he claimed they were seared in his memory

do you have any proof of any facts being presented that were wrong?

2) Kerry's commander and the his immediate superior on the boat during the first purple heart incident didnt think he deserved a purple heart

Since a commander and/or immediate superior recommendation is necessary to get a purple heart, how is this possible? Do you have proof of this grand "give Kerry a medal" fraud?

3) Kerry has admitted to war crimes

Please provide link where Kerry says "I committed war crimes"

4) Kerry said that 250 Vets told him about atrocities - however, Kerry cannot provide information on a single atrocity

Wait a minute! First he admits to war crimes, now he can't provide information on a single one?

5) Kerry has not released all his war records

Please show evidence of missing records.

6) There are vets, not all republicans or conservatives, that dispute Kerry's assertions of fact

And? Point? There are vets, not all republicans or conservatives, that dispute the world is round.

7) Kerry has played politics with his Vietman experience

Please show evidence or proof of this playing of politics.

[Toro]

You're too entrenched to listen to anything I have to say so I'm done with this. I'd rather do something I enjoy like play poker than spar all day with close minded people.

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do you have any proof or evidence of Utah being closed minded? Could you provide a link?

[Utah]

Say whaaaa......

too bad you are unable to agrue effectively. Maybe its best that you go play poker.

Not sure how listing out the undisputable facts and backing away from opinions as a starting point for discussion is close minded. My guess is that you dont like the list of facts and that it somehow challenges your fragile and unfounded beliefs.

Oh well

[Utah]

I dont mind a good online razzing - in fact, I rather enjoy it. However, your little attack in not clever, funny, well founded, or logical. HEY - I Get in Now! Dumb of me - its just like all your posts, which are not clever, funny, well founded, or logical. I should have seen that connection from the start.

Hey, I hear there is an extra seat at Toro's poker table. You might want to jump in and save this forum from being cluttered up with your mindless posts.

Not sure why you dont like facts, evidence, and proof when you are making an argument. My only guess can be that you dont like evidence because it rarely if ever supports your beliefs. Can you give me another reason? Call me crazy, but I like evidence when listening to arguments.

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Where's your evidence?
Where's your evidence?
Where's your evidence?
Where's your evidence?
Where's your evidence?

Jeeez....

[Toro]

You're so full of yourself.

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Where is your proof or evidence of this so-called "fullness"?