Dear Christians: why doesn't god DO something? - Page 13

IronUnkind · #**121** 10-24-2005, 05:14 AM

To paraphrase Melvin Udall -- people who link to infidels.org should shampoo my crotch! Veteran hacks posing as scholars make for a grim consensus. At least bonafide crackpots like Alex Chiu have the courage of their wacko convictions.

The Infidels, on the other hand, hide their dogmas behind a patina of credibility. To wit, a self-anointed title like "humanist" sounds a lot nicer than the more apt "bush-league philosopher." Notwithstanding, I must concede that their site contains volumes of important scholarship from professional magicians; whereas Jesus (according to the Infidels) was merely an amateur.

Lestat · #**122** 10-24-2005, 05:25 AM

I agree. The only thing I would change is that beliefs stem from the need to "make sense" out of life experiences for which there are no concrete answers.

REL18 · #**123** 10-24-2005, 09:25 AM

As time has progressed so has religion from fables to polytheism to monotheism to offcourse atheism

hmkpoker · #**124** 10-24-2005, 09:30 AM

Well, it's been a few days. I'm still here.

Come on you little bitch.

hmkpoker · #**125** 10-24-2005, 09:34 AM

I gave that last question the dignity of an answer that it deserved.

I can't call myself anything but an agnostic. If you're asking me where I'll put my money, yes, my money is going on the absence of a god rather than the presence. However, I acknowledge the possibility that I could be wrong. I am not perfect, I am human. To claim that there is no god, no matter what, and that I cannot be persuaded otherwise, would be intellectual suicide.

Christians, of course, call this "faith," and claim righteousness about it.

#**126** 10-24-2005, 10:34 AM

Yes, I believe we can control what we believe, and that any choice someone makes is okay. If someone doesn't believe in the idea that there is some sort of diety who had a creative design, that's fine. I don't KNOW a God exists. I believe one does. I could be wrong, but from my life experience and the feelings I have felt, I believe. And as said in the other thread, I think believing in a holy diety is +EV.

#**127** 10-24-2005, 11:40 AM

Ninja-
Your "Believing in God is +EV" argument has been completely torn to shreds in another thread. Wasn't but a few days ago, so if you want to continue making that argument I suggest you read it.

And to all the Christians who say that miracles don't happen because that would interfere with free will (and NotReady)-
What is your take on Peter's miracles? I mean, they're not just differing beliefs in doctrine; they're events that in no way can be explained by science (every attempt has failed!) and can be seen by one and all.

I think the non-believers would agree with me that no one has come anywhere close to a coherent explanation why seas used to part, and the best we have now are fetus-shaped hurricanes. And yes, Peter, if there is an unexplained phenomenon, and there are scientists who believe there's a rational explanation, all non-believers will take their word for it. What we're looking for is a tap-dancing elephant fluent in 3 languages.

NotReady · #**128** 10-24-2005, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]

And to all the Christians who say that miracles don't happen because that would interfere with free will (and NotReady)-

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did I say that?

[ QUOTE ]

What is your take on Peter's miracles? I mean, they're not just differing beliefs in doctrine; they're events that in no way can be explained by science (every attempt has failed!) and can be seen by one and all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't followed the andy/peter thread. In general I don't pay much attention to supposed miracles outside the Bible. Perhaps someday I will look into it.

[ QUOTE ]

What we're looking for is a tap-dancing elephant fluent in 3 languages.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't Siegfried and Roy used to have one of those?

#**129** 10-24-2005, 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ninja-
Your "Believing in God is +EV" argument has been completely torn to shreds in another thread. Wasn't but a few days ago, so if you want to continue making that argument I suggest you read it.

And to all the Christians who say that miracles don't happen because that would interfere with free will (and NotReady)-
What is your take on Peter's miracles? I mean, they're not just differing beliefs in doctrine; they're events that in no way can be explained by science (every attempt has failed!) and can be seen by one and all.

I think the non-believers would agree with me that no one has come anywhere close to a coherent explanation why seas used to part, and the best we have now are fetus-shaped hurricanes. And yes, Peter, if there is an unexplained phenomenon, and there are scientists who believe there's a rational explanation, all non-believers will take their word for it. What we're looking for is a tap-dancing elephant fluent in 3 languages.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I believe the thread was about "Christianity is +EV.

I'm saying believing in a God is +EV (with tongue in cheek).

Lestat · #**130** 10-24-2005, 12:48 PM

There are theories and then there are beliefs. A belief by it's very nature cannot be proved. It is not testable. It is a "best guess" about a situation or reality for which any logical answer remains absent. It is easy to see how the ability to form beliefs may have been a very important part of our evolutionary process. When logical information is unavailable, it is sometimes necessary for survival to take a "best guess". In other words, making any conclusion is often better than arriving at no conclusion at all. Imagine early man who had to make survival decisions based on incomplete information.

However, theory and logic override beliefs. If someone told you to stand in front of a speeding train at noon tomorrow and you will walk away unharmed; Is there any way you could you "choose" to believe that? Incredibly, some people have a weak enough logic process to where they could be made to believe this given enough time and brain-washing.

My point is that we don't choose our beliefs even though it might seem as if we are. What each of us do, is find ways to make sense of our existence and reality in the absense of logical answers. For some, God fits the bill. For others, it's re-incarnation, or some other illogical conclusion.

Your beliefs are what they are based on your perception of reality and how well you use logic. You are not choosing them. What you are doing (in your own words), is attempting to make a +EV play by fooling yourself and God (if he does exists).