QTs makes flush on non-pair board, calls river raise

DavidC · #1 06-15-2005, 06:03 AM

Break out the weak-sauce: Villain is 16 vpip, 7 pfr, and aggressive after 141 hands. No specific reads, unfortunately.

Just curious if you guys like the call on the river.

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Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB folds, UTG calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

RaiNz · #2 06-15-2005, 06:25 AM

I 3bet/CC on the river. I don't see what he could have that beats you that wouldn't warrant a flop bet when checked to, except maybe A4s or K4s. I would expect A8s and K8s to bet the flop.

einbert · #3 06-15-2005, 06:44 AM

I would generally bet this flop.

I don't like the river call, I would have three bet and called a cap.

DavidC · #4 06-15-2005, 06:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would generally bet this flop.

I don't like the river call, I would have three bet and called a cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... I've been betting a lot of these, and getting a lot of calls. Is it good or bad to get like 3 calls when you make a bet like this?

--Dave.

dozer · #5 06-15-2005, 06:57 AM

definately 3-bet this. only 2 hands beat you here. Villain can easily have a lower flush not just a higher one. 16 vpip after 141 hands dowsn't necessarily mean villain is that tight preflop, he could be just running cold.

therockofgibraltar · #6 06-15-2005, 06:57 AM

I used to fold QTs UTG+2 but nowadays I call if already one limper so I guess that's ok.

3-bet the river, call if he caps.

Webster · #7 06-15-2005, 07:14 AM

I'll also 3 bet the river,

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einbert · #8 06-15-2005, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well... I've been betting a lot of these, and getting a lot of calls. Is it good or bad to get like 3 calls when you make a bet like this?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think betting this flop does a lot for you, besides just the possibility of taking down the pot immediately.

-Gives you a chance to buy the button (especially since you only have to fold out one person to get there, and he is tight)
-Gives you a better chance to get a free river card if you don't hit anything on the turn
-Has a decent chance of getting better hands to fold (K-high, A-high, underpairs to the board, bottom pair, possibly middle pair though less likely) which of course is going to increase your already strong equity in this pot
-Last of all, it misrepresents your hand in case you do hit one of your probable ten outs

So I would say that getting called in three spots when you make this bet isn't necessarily "good" or "bad" but in any case I like leading out here.

karitek · #9 06-15-2005, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3bet/CC on the river. I don't see what he could have that beats you that wouldn't warrant a flop bet when checked to, except maybe A4s or K4s. I would expect A8s and K8s to bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well anyone else who runner-runnered this flush would have probably checked the flop then cold-called 2 on the turn.

My question, is what would you put him on if he doesn't have a higher flush than you? Is he the type of player that would limp in MP1 with 87s or lower? If so, then definitely cap. But if he's been showing down more solid hands, than I think I'd call. His betting points to a flush. Maybe I'm being too weak tight too.

Also, I'm betting the flop. You have 8.5 outs (i think - 3 overcard, 1.5 BDFD, 4 gutshot). You can clean up your overcard outs, and maybe buy the button.

grjr · #10 06-15-2005, 04:25 PM

I was going to say 3 bet the river but after looking at the flop and turn again I don't think it's a good idea. Villain is 16% and aggressive. Would he limp in with 87s and if he did would he check the flop as last to act? I don't think so.

That means the only hands he could have that we beat would be 76s and lower. Would a 16% limp in with those hands? Doubtful. It loooks more like A7s to me and if it is we're getting capped on the river.