BK and I disagree

Schneids · #1 09-29-2005, 04:27 AM

This hand occured tonight at Canterbury $30/60, in which BK and I disagree about which is the right flop decision.

3 limpers to BK in the CO and he raises. Our hero (not me) cold calls with 33. Both blinds call. 7 to the flop.

Flop 554 two clubs (hero has 3c). Checked to our hero on the button.

Background: SB is very LAG, would have likely bet out here with any piece of the board. He plays decent in big pots and isn't afraid to splash around. There's a chance he'll checkraise with overcards, and likely will take one off. BB is likely to get out unless he has flopped a good draw or made hand. Ditto UTG. UTG+1, another limper, is a tight player who is likely on tilt at the moment and loosening up his hand range because he's running bad. MP1, our last limper, is someone who sees 50% of flops and chases too often post flop, but likely would have bet into BK with any piece or draw. CO is BK, our PFR.

So, we're likely looking at a bet eliminating 1-4 opponents, most likely 2-3.

Should he bet here or check?

mike l. · #2 09-29-2005, 04:32 AM

given the pot size button should definitely bet this flop and hope some people let hands go that they shouldnt.

baronzeus · #3 09-29-2005, 04:34 AM

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given the pot size button should definitely bet this flop and hope some people let hands go that they shouldnt.

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plus you have awesome position and you can hope that SB check-raises overcards or something and clears out a huge field for you

i vote bet

Schneids · #4 09-29-2005, 04:35 AM

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given the pot size button should definitely bet this flop and hope some people let hands go that they shouldnt.

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Not to bias answers, but this is exactly what I told my roommate (hero) in the carride back to our apartment. He did bet and a few minutes after the hand BK was telling him he should have checked the flop for a free shot at a 2-outer since it's unlikely he'd win the pot unimproved.

Maybe someone else will come on here and explain why that is right but I was just floored hearing that BK thought this flop should be checked through.

mike l. · #5 09-29-2005, 04:39 AM

"I was just floored hearing that BK thought this flop should be checked through."

only thing i could think is bk wasnt fully honest he just wished 33 button had checked so he could get a free look at the turn with his K9s or whatever. understandable sentiment.

anyway the large pot size dictates everything here and this is not a time to take the free card. it would be correct to bet a lot of hands on the button when checked to here in an attempt to take control of the hand, clean up outs, clear out players, and set it up to be yours if at all possible. 33 is more than sufficient enough hand to bet here.

Rick Nebiolo · #6 10-02-2005, 09:50 AM

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anyway the large pot size dictates everything here and this is not a time to take the free card. it would be correct to bet a lot of hands on the button when checked to here in an attempt to take control of the hand, clean up outs, clear out players, and set it up to be yours if at all possible. 33 is more than sufficient enough hand to bet here.

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mike,

I'm about to zonk out (late late no limit is the nuts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) but the way I looked at it is 33 with this board and situation isn't a hand that needs protection, it's a hand that needs to improve against what is likely to be (per Sneids) three or four opponents on the turn. The only good card for the button other than a three is a deuce. Everything else is likely to hit one of his three or four opponents.

The button clearly wants a free card here. He got a chance to get one and he should take it.

~ Rick

girgy44 · #7 09-29-2005, 09:33 AM

What limit is this? Because if this is a lower limit CB game there is no way the SB c/r's overs. In those games they ussually c/r a made hand and maybe a big draw. Additionally if the sb does call then there is a good chance that he will get everyone to call(or at least 3-4 more). Gutterballs aren't folding, backdoor flushes with overs dont fold here, ect. Just like how when utg limps pre-flop it often starts a complete limpfest b/c everyone else thinks that they just became pot committed.

The Truth · #8 09-29-2005, 04:35 AM

What is the likely hood of someone leading into you on the turn if you bet the flop. How often will the check the turn to you? I think this is important when deciding.

-blake

Schneids · #9 09-29-2005, 04:37 AM

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What is the likely hood of someone leading into you on the turn if you bet the flop. How often will the check the turn to you? I think this is important when deciding.

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Not too often. Most CB hands follow flow and outside of about 6-8 young guys in this game almost nobody ever donk bets (and if any of these guys do, you are beat).

baronzeus · #10 09-29-2005, 04:39 AM

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What is the likely hood of someone leading into you on the turn if you bet the flop. How often will the check the turn to you? I think this is important when deciding.

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Not too often. Most CB hands follow flow and outside of about 6-8 young guys in this game almost nobody ever donk bets (and if any of these guys do, you are beat).

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i'd like to see bk's reasoning here because with your read on SB combined with this it's a clear bet no?