10/25 and i have no idea what's going on in this hand

mgsimpleton · #1 11-22-2005, 02:23 AM

10/25 at foxwoods, playing with AZK, john, and 6 fish. Amazing game.

CO raises to 75 (2 suited cards ish) AZK calls in CO, i call on Button with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 more calls.

Flop (375): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

MP leads out 200 (very predictable and bad player), AZK calls, I call on button.

Turn (975): 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP checks, AZK bets 500, I call (comments on this? I am confused... I didn't think Ari would slowplay flopped flush and i KNOW he wouldn't slowplay 2 pair, so i'm confused. so i call). MP gives one of those "i'm reluctantly pot committed so I call" calls. This means he has the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

River (2475): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

MP checks, AZk bets 800, I call.

comments on the line?

BobboFitos · #2 11-22-2005, 02:26 AM

Talking this over lamb is better then me talking it over my laptop w/ no food. but -

what about raising the flop?

Big_Jim · #3 11-22-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't think Ari would slowplay flopped flush and i KNOW he wouldn't slowplay 2 pair, so i'm confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... so what other hands could he have? I assume if he's not slowplaying 2 pair, a set is also right out... and I don't really see how the 3 could have improved him. A3?? Doesn't seem too likely, especially since there's only one combo of A3s.

The only other hands you have to worry about are AK and AQ. Since these are typical "mix it up PF" kinds of hands, I'm sure he calls with them occationally, instead of re-raising.

His turn bet seems awfully weak, though. It looks like he's trying to price himself in on a draw... but it sounds like MPs got the K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], so what else could he be drawing with?

AxQ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? KxQ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Jx?

Typically the check/call flop weakish turn lead line is a top pair kind of hand trying to find out where it's at, or a draw trying to price itself in. Of course, it could also be a weak lead looking to get raised.

On the river, he makes another weak ass bet....

Somehow, it really feels like a weak-lead to induce a raise, here. It's hard to put you on much of a hand, since you've just been calling down. He may think that this is the best way to get you to put your stack in with nothing.

Not sure I can fold, though. Not for 4:1.

I think a flop raise would be good, considering your read on MP and AZK not showing any strength.

Barring that, I think you can argue for a turn raise.

Barring that, river call looks good.

edge · #4 11-22-2005, 02:54 AM

Raise preflop or flop?

JMP300z · #5 11-22-2005, 08:12 AM

None if it feels right to me. Almost like you got sucked into calling off a bunch of your chips w/ top pair avg to poor kicker (t on board).

The trips on the end is fairly irrelevant imo. Is AZK capable of PO bluffing 2 opponenets on the end? I mean I guess he has decent odds if one of you has the K and one the Q but in reality i think your shown a small flush or A4/AT a lot more often. However, you claim to know he wouldnt slowplay twopair, ill take your word for it. Maybe he turned two pair, thinks his hand is good but will fold to a lot of action. Maybe an option is to bluff raise the turn since itll show a ton of strength.
His flush would have to be either low or the nuts since you have the J and the T is on board (ie. KQ or 98- unless he calls w/ K/Q9s pf.) and by reading the MP for the bare K can let you assume if he has a made flush its of the low variety. The small bet on the end when the board pairs fits w/ a made hand on the turn that now thinks its up against either two draws or a draw and a weak made hand (no turn raise). I hope he showed a bravely played A9/8.

-JP

TheWorstPlayer · #6 11-22-2005, 09:04 AM

Maybe if you pretended it was a no limit hand and told us stack sizes we could comment intelligently. Just a thought.

Chaostracize · #7 11-22-2005, 11:52 AM

I don't know if you should be allowed to comment on the hand since you didn't come out with us.

TheWorstPlayer · #8 11-22-2005, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if you should be allowed to comment on the hand since you didn't come out with us.

[/ QUOTE ]
If I knew you were coming, I would have been there. I thought it was just going to be losers like Ari, Vanessa, and Rob.

mgsimpleton · #9 11-22-2005, 12:29 PM

stack sizes are... a lot. like, way more than necessary... i think ari with 5k, mp with 5k and i cover if i remember correctly.

TheWorstPlayer · #10 11-22-2005, 01:48 PM

Then I like your line. What did you consider doing differently? Working backwards, I definitely don't see value in a river raise, maybe raising the turn to protect in case the dude behind you had a better flush draw is worthwhile but pot control is probably more important than hand protection here. Same on the flop. I think if you won this pot, then you took down a nice pot with a marginal hand. And if you lost this pot, then you lost the minimum in a tricky situation. I like your line.