some pf hands from my session tonight

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i used pokerstove with a few variables and possible hand ranges before and your never getting more than 15% equity in this pot. i dont think you can justify a value raise here

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the problem with stoving this one up is that the stove assumes we're seeing the river. That's not a given with this hand. Instead we must determine the probability that we'll see a positive equity situation on the flop.

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well... are we more likely to see a positive equity situation on the flop with UTG and the blinds IN the hand or OUT of it? i really think its going overboard with a raise here. we need this flop to be multiway to get the implied odds.....

and to vote4pedro: imo the only way a pair of Tens becomes relevant here is when the board is Txxxx and noone has an overpair or two pair, its a reasonably negligent factor

[Guruman]

yeah, raising's out since it would likely fold out the blinds and we have to make up a sb for every one that a blind or limper doesn't put in. Ok, bad idea there.

that said, I think we still have to call.

another question:
if we call w A2s, do we call with Q2s? what about T2s? 23s?

I think I call all of my suited Aces and Kings because I'm protected by nut and near nut hands when they hit, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, and 98s+, and 55+

[@bsolute_luck]

the results of hand 2 and 3 make no sense. people will fold A8o against a tight open limper when we have position, but are eager to raise w/o position and little chance to fold BB.

what people should do is take a couple pennies down to .10/.2 or if they have the bankroll .25/.5 and LAG it up preflop and you'll see how calling A8s with so many people is not a big deal as long as you're comfortable with your postflop play.

we can't assume our Ace isn't good, we have a good # of people already in the hand, perfect position, and we have 3 outs to see an 8 on the flop if we are behind a bigger Ace and, sorry, i love things soooted.

ps: i didn't mess up my vote of the last hand. i said call, but misread that someone raised. that is an easy fold. if in BB: easy call.

[adsman]

I think that Hand 3 is the most interesting here. When a TAG open limps on the button at 6max it tells me one thing - he's probably read HPFAP. On page 197 Sklansky talks about when the blinds are very loose or are apt to defend their blinds aggressively it is better to limp unless your hand is in the top 40%. So, on this hand we have a very loose BB and our friend Guruman who I'm sure is apt to defend his blind aggressively. Villian thus probably has a small PP, suited connecters or a low Ace. So number 1, this is not always a bad play, and from a good opponent it can tell you a lot about what his hand range might be.
Now lets go to our position in the sb. The purpose of raising would be to get the BB out and get it HU. But the BB is very loose and will almost always call. So no dice there. You could say that we should raise for value, but I think raising A9o out of position to a calling station and a TAG is asking for trouble. So lets just complete here and see what the flop brings.

IMO, these hands are great examples of the danger of weak offsuit Aces. I don't have the 6 max experience to comment, but on the first 2, your read + SSHE theory both point to clear folds. I seek out and note fish that regularly play weak A. Its a great tell for full ring games.

[jrz1972]

FWIW,

On hand 1, I called. We're getting decent pot odds to see a flop, our implied odds are nice, and we have position. That said, I don't hate folding. If you can't get away from top pair, you shouldn't be making these sorts of calls.

On hand 2, I raised to isolate. The tighty will often fold the flop without resistance if he misses. I should be able to squeeze some value out of this situation.

I just called on hand 3. If the BB were tight and button was loose I would raise, but we're not folding BB and I'm never happy to see a known TAG open-limp on the button. He knows I'm tight, so I would expect him to open-raise with all sorts of marginal hands to get HU IP with the weak BB. When he open-limps, he basically says he wants me in the hand. Fish open-limping on the button = dinner is served. TAG or sLAG open-limping on the button = red flag.

Hand 4 is an easy fold. Nothing to discuss here.

[deception5]

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I think that Hand 3 is the most interesting here. When a TAG open limps on the button at 6max it tells me one thing - he's probably read HPFAP. On page 197 Sklansky talks about when the blinds are very loose or are apt to defend their blinds aggressively it is better to limp unless your hand is in the top 40%. So, on this hand we have a very loose BB and our friend Guruman who I'm sure is apt to defend his blind aggressively. Villian thus probably has a small PP, suited connecters or a low Ace. So number 1, this is not always a bad play, and from a good opponent it can tell you a lot about what his hand range might be.
Now lets go to our position in the sb. The purpose of raising would be to get the BB out and get it HU. But the BB is very loose and will almost always call. So no dice there. You could say that we should raise for value, but I think raising A9o out of position to a calling station and a TAG is asking for trouble. So lets just complete here and see what the flop brings.

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My thought is:

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When a TAG open limps on the button at 6max it tells me one thing - he probably sucks.

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Hand 3 is a must raise. Not only because we often have the best hand right now, but because we don't want this guy limping in every time we are in the small blind. Make him realize it's 2SB to play.

HEPFAP pg 197 does not apply here because a raise will fold a TAG in the SB VERY often.

[deception5]

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I just called on hand 3. If the BB were tight and button was loose I would raise, but we're not folding BB and I'm never happy to see a known TAG open-limp on the button. He knows I'm tight, so I would expect him to open-raise with all sorts of marginal hands to get HU IP with the weak BB. When he open-limps, he basically says he wants me in the hand. Fish open-limping on the button = dinner is served. TAG or sLAG open-limping on the button = red flag.

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I can see your point here. I suppose it depends on how many hands you have on the player. Usually when someone I thought was a tag limps on the button I have to change my read because it's a suited connector or low pocket pair. If I don't raise in these spots they'll be limping in all of the time.

Also a tag realizes that a button raise is often interpreted as a steal raise making it tempting to raise on the button with premium hands (hoping the opponents hit something and play back with top pair). If the blinds often fold there's an argument to limp AA-QQ here, but the BB rarely folds in this example.

[tiltaholic]

for the 2 full ring hands.

hand 1 - i call. lots of people and i have ultimate position. i think folding is also good.

hand 2 - you left out the the important piece of info -- are the blinds really tight? if they will fold to a raise, i think i could isolate one (presumably weak) limper. i don't think 25 hands is enough to know...but if he's a bad player and the blinds are tight i raise. as you posed the question i voted fold.

[car ramrod]

I fold hand 1, it's close to a call, but my numbers with Axs where x< than T are small losers. It's not easy to get away from an A, and you are dominated a lot here. For everyone saying a call, check your numbers w/ Axs and see which are winners and which are losers.

Hand 2 I fold, A8 is not a real strong 3betting hand, unless I know the open raiser is weak or loose I fold

Hand 3 is an easy raise imo.

Hand 4 is an easy fold imo.