So Why is Stealing Wrong Again?

[HDPM]

You are mistaking the benefits of rationally pooling individual effort with the evil of collectivism. My definition of living properly includes not having to slave away for people who believe in collectivism. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[HDPM]

No, this isn't a sad commentary on our "society." Most people think that the wretched people have a lien on the better off. That is the sad thing. You are also mistaking compassion. It is entirely possible to have compassion for others and help them out while recognizing there is no obligation to do so. Also, compassion is impossible in a "society" that embraces altruism.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
if you got wind he was considering this theft, what (non religious) argument could you use that would have any impact on him

[/ QUOTE ]

What is it you want, exactly? A reason why stealing for reasons other than sustaining life is 'wrong'? If so, then the reason is becasue it's bad for society.

Or do you want an argument you can use to prevent a friend from stealing for fun? Try something like:

- Your kids will think less of you.
- Your kids will grow up stealing, too
- You wouldn't want someone to steal from you, so don't do it yourself
- It's wrong to steal

Or do you want something that satisfies both logical analysis and is easily consumed by someone uninterested in logic? I guess there is no such thing. Why do you need it, anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
You are mistaking the benefits of rationally pooling individual effort with the evil of collectivism. My definition of living properly includes not having to slave away for people who believe in collectivism. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]Yet, your idea of living properly means that some people have to slave away for people who believe in your idea of rationally pooling individual effort.

[HDPM]

No, they don't.

[scalf]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] compassion is a luxury of the rich..

gl

[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
No, they don't.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm relieved.

[Cooker]

Have you ever studied the way of life of Native American tribes in North America? They were doing just fine without property rights, and as a group were among the healthiest and most content people I have ever read about. However, their overall lack of disease turned out to be their downfall. They were essentially exterminated by biological attack and had no bioweapons of their own.

I am no expert on government systems in history, but if you are I would like to hear your account of the inherent flaws of Native North American societies.

[hicherbie]

To all of those who think you cannot justify walking into that playboys house and stealing money when you are not starving...consider what you are doing when you download a movie/mp3/comptuer software that you otherwise would have bought.

David,

The lines drawn for these moral arguments shift with what the consensus is for needs and desires. I think most of us, being good children of the enlightenment, feel as though certain freedoms and liberties are due to every person born. The most basic liberty of course, is being allowed to live. In your examples, the stealer is somebody trying to provide for helpless children, who through no fault of their own, find it nessesary for stealing to occur for them to survive. So the answers given are really in a response to the priorities that we see between liberties. We feel as though we can sacrifice the freedom to have basic comforts and desires (excess money or whatever) to allow for survival of the innocent. Im sure the answers might change a little bit if it was a degenerate gambler who had to steal bread because he keeps losing his quarters at the local casino.

making any arguement to him as a person only offers emotional responces to what should be logical moral questions. we should consider this as a case of right or wrong (or whatever degrees of both this might be) and leave the humanistic appeal out of it.

[Zygote]

There are no reasnoble reasons for him to not steal. Its that simple.