Dealing with fish

I've been playing on Fortune (.5/1) since i get rakeback. The players there are generally pretty awful and i am up 52BB overall right now. The problem is not so much the variance (which has been huge) but the way the variance comes about. I started up 60BB, then down to 0, then up to 100 (as of yesterday) then went all the way back down to 52 today.

Now I know variance is part of the game, but I'm having trouble dealing with it when then downswings happen because of terrible plays by opponents. Here's a snippet of the last hand I played before quitting:

Hand #120454089 at table: Table TH 705
Started: Sat Oct 22 02:51:44 2005

heret1k is at seat 1 with 2.25
Hennej is at seat 2 with 19.50
kegyetlen is at seat 3 with 16.25
tonidani is at seat 4 with 60.25
Betty6 is at seat 5 with 29.75
CH-Luke is at seat 6 with 10.50
manuavi is at seat 7 with 18.00
Oliver28 is at seat 8 with 13.20
rafik is at seat 9 with 34.50
lukeduke72 is at seat 10 with 30.75

lukeduke72 posts the large blind 0.50
rafik posts the small blind 0.25

rafik: --, --
lukeduke72: --, --
heret1k: Kh, Jc
Hennej: --, --
kegyetlen: --, --
tonidani: --, --
Betty6: --, --
CH-Luke: --, --
manuavi: --, --
Oliver28: --, --

Pre-flop:

heret1k: Call 0.50
Hennej: Fold
kegyetlen: Call 0.50
tonidani: Call 0.50
Betty6: Call 0.50
CH-Luke: Call 0.50
manuavi: Fold
Oliver28: Raise 1.00
rafik: Fold
lukeduke72: Raise 1.50
heret1k: Call 1.50
kegyetlen: Fold
tonidani: Call 1.50
Betty6: Call 1.50
CH-Luke: Call 1.50
Oliver28: Raise 2.00
lukeduke72: Call 2.00
heret1k: Call 2.00
tonidani: Call 2.00
Betty6: Call 2.00
CH-Luke: Call 2.00

Flop (Board: Qc, 4s, 5s):

lukeduke72: Bet 0.50
heret1k: Fold


Now it's obvious I'm a bit on tilt, but here's the thing. lukeduke72 only had A9s, yet played as if he had AA or some other monster hand. He continued to bet like that throughout the hand. The result? He had Ace high and lost to 33 (I actually would have won the hand had i thrown in my last quarter, ironically. Makes me even more annoyed). Also notice all the callers, even to 3 raises.

Now here's what I want to ask:

1) How do I deal with downswings caused by other players playing awful but getting lucky, versus just being outplayed by better players? I mean if I just went down in the second fashion, I wouldn't feel nearly as shitty as I do right now. I just feel.. like even with all my reading of SSHE and studying hands here and elsewhere, the ill effects of getting beaten out by donks who play like they're on acid doesn't make it feel worth it very much.

2) Is playing these type of people really HELPING my game? I mean if I move up limits in the future my opponents won't be like this (for example I'll be able to put people on hands a bit more, protect my hand etc. where right now it's just a crapshoot, everyone bets on everything).

I just feel lost and hopefully some people here could give me some pointers. I'm pretty new to the game and obviously want to play my best, but stuff like this makes it hard to figure out what that is. Thanks.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm having trouble dealing with it when then downswings happen because of terrible plays by opponents

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironic statement.

You can start by playing alot better than you did this hand.

Edit: Upon checking, I see you're getting involved in the strategy forums. That's a great start.

b

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but I'm having trouble dealing with it when then downswings happen because of terrible plays by opponents

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironic statement.

You can start by playing alot better than you did this hand.

Edit: Upon checking, I see you're getting involved in the strategy forums. That's a great start.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

i did say i was on tilt somewhat.

so my statement wasn't really that ironic overall, as most of the time i think i am playing quite well (TAGish).

it's just very frustrating to (most of the time), finally get a good hand after 5-10 folds in a row, play it well, and get sucked out by players who shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place. what the hell do i learn from that either?

[runout_mick]

Ummm, no offense, but why you fold to the bet on the flop is waaaay beyond me... you're getting roughly 14.75 billion to one odds there.

If this is indicative of your typical play, I think you may want to spend a little time studying some of the basic basics of the game before you pursue it any further.

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, no offense, but why you fold to the bet on the flop is waaaay beyond me... you're getting roughly 14.75 billion to one odds there.

If this is indicative of your typical play, I think you may want to spend a little time studying some of the basic basics of the game before you pursue it any further.

[/ QUOTE ]

why can't people just read my posts completely. I SAID I WAS ON TILT!!!

why was i on tilt? well that's exactly what i mentioned and asked questions about. questions i guess which will never be answered because you focus on what is instead irrelevant.

[runout_mick]

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why can't people just read my posts completely

[/ QUOTE ]

I did read it, and I mean no offense, but it seems (from this one snippet), that you have MUCH bigger problems than the "fish" sucking out on you, or the brown end of variance.

I sincerely hope you believe me when I say this is not a flame post, just an honest critique in the spirit of being helpful.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

why can't people just read my posts completely

[/ QUOTE ]

I did read it, and I mean no offense, but it seems (from this one snippet), that you have MUCH bigger problems than the "fish" sucking out on you, or the brown end of variance.

I sincerely hope you believe me when I say this is not a flame post, just an honest critique in the spirit of being helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes because that was a snippet of me on tilt. i.e. i don't normally play like that whatsoever. that's what tilt is, a player playing substantially worse than normal. what is so hard to understand?

[KeysrSoze]

Then don't go on tilt. It makes no difference if you don't know any better than the "fish" you're playing, or you are conscious that you are messing up. You're still playing badly, thats all that matters.

that had to be some uber tilt, because that was a badly played hand.

Why would you post a hand that you admit is much worse than you actually play, as an example of your play?

[Harv72b]

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How do I deal with downswings caused by other players playing awful but getting lucky, versus just being outplayed by better players?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what downswings are. If you're being outplayed, that is not a downswing--that is either reality or poor table selection.

[ QUOTE ]
I mean if I just went down in the second fashion, I wouldn't feel nearly as shitty as I do right now. I just feel.. like even with all my reading of SSHE and studying hands here and elsewhere, the ill effects of getting beaten out by donks who play like they're on acid doesn't make it feel worth it very much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel much worse when I get outplayed than when I take a bad beat (or series of them). Being outplayed is something I have control over, and therefore when it happens, it reveals a shortcoming in my own game. Being sucked out on is what I count on in order to make money at this game--think about it, if everyone played perfect poker, how would you win? You wouldn't; it would become a game of pure luck no different than roulette. You want your opponents to play poorly, because when they do you make money, even if you lose that particular hand because of it. Read The Theory of Poker by Sklansky for more information.

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Is playing these type of people really HELPING my game?

[/ QUOTE ]

It should be, or rather, helping your bankroll. Get used to the swings, but know that by playing correctly, you will come out ahead.

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I mean if I move up limits in the future my opponents won't be like this (for example I'll be able to put people on hands a bit more, protect my hand etc. where right now it's just a crapshoot, everyone bets on everything).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the most common fallacies that new poker players subscribe to. The (generally better) players at higher limits didn't get there by being predictable and paying you off every time you have the best hand while folding every time they'd beat you. You make money when your opponents make mistakes, plain and simple. The higher limit, the fewer mistakes your opponents will make. If you are a good player, your short-term variance will probably decrease as you get to higher limits, true. But your win rate will take a nose dive.

[ QUOTE ]
I just feel lost and hopefully some people here could give me some pointers. I'm pretty new to the game and obviously want to play my best, but stuff like this makes it hard to figure out what that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just keep playing good poker. Everybody goes through this "the fish always suck out on me so it's impossible to beat these low-limit games" phase. As you gain more experience and expand your poker education, you'll change your mind.