Somewhere an angel just lost it's wings... Terrible? River Laydown

Mr. Peanut · #1 08-25-2005, 05:37 PM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Omaha/8 (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, SB caps, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

In retrospect, I should have smoothcalled the flop, and raised a safe turn card rather than raising the flop. This would have given me a better chance to knock some people out of the hand rather than letting them see the river for one bet. When it came back two bets to me, I really wanted to call, but in a split second decision I decided to muck. I didn't think that the SB just had a low, because of the flop bet (in previous hands, he had not bet out with the naked nut low draw, only with a high or up and down draw, I put MP-1 on the nut low, and didn't think that the SB would cap without the straight for fear of being quartered. I still don't know if the laydown would always be wrong here, even though in this case it was.

On another note, the river raise was an attempt to get MP1 to fold a weak, non-nut low, in an attempt to scoop if the SB had something like two-pair. Is this play a good idea, I guess it wasn't here, but I'm sure it has it's place somewhere.

djr · #2 08-25-2005, 06:51 PM

I don't know I'd fold this river. THere are only two hands that beat you, 36 and 68. Who holds onto those hands to the river (granted A236 would). I think you're good enough to make calling right giving the size of the pot you win.

Notorious G.O.B. · #3 08-25-2005, 06:51 PM

I think smoothcalling on the flop would be pretty goofy considering how small the pot is.

#4 08-26-2005, 05:19 PM

Beavis68 · #5 08-26-2005, 07:55 PM

Great example of how crappy a hand big pair xx is.

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Omaha/8 (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, SB caps, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

In retrospect, I should have smoothcalled the flop, and raised a safe turn card rather than raising the flop. This would have given me a better chance to knock some people out of the hand rather than letting them see the river for one bet. When it came back two bets to me, I really wanted to call, but in a split second decision I decided to muck. I didn't think that the SB just had a low, because of the flop bet (in previous hands, he had not bet out with the naked nut low draw, only with a high or up and down draw, I put MP-1 on the nut low, and didn't think that the SB would cap without the straight for fear of being quartered. I still don't know if the laydown would always be wrong here, even though in this case it was.

On another note, the river raise was an attempt to get MP1 to fold a weak, non-nut low, in an attempt to scoop if the SB had something like two-pair. Is this play a good idea, I guess it wasn't here, but I'm sure it has it's place somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Peanut · #6 08-26-2005, 09:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Great example of how crappy a hand big pair xx is.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you almost wish it is raised before the flop with a hand like that so you don't even have to get involved [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

bodie · #7 08-27-2005, 01:44 AM

In my last two playing sessions (live 3-6 O8) I have had pocket K's which were both raised in a kill-pot, so I folded them (the other two cards were rags) - today the betting was not only raised but capped before I folded.
I then went on to watch the board turn into:
Hand 1 - K, J, J, x, x
Hand 2 - Q, 4, 5, K, Q

Both pots were easily over $200.00 and had no low.
It's hard to just sit there and watch.

Ribbo · #8 08-27-2005, 04:03 AM

spaminator101 · #9 08-27-2005, 09:10 PM

i dont fold this hand

anatta · #10 08-28-2005, 03:45 AM

You said you thought you should wait until the turn. I think your flop raise is good. In a bigger pot with a more vulnerable hand, I would wait. You have a good high hand here in an unraised pot. There are no high str8 draws or flush draws. Might as well raise flop so that gutshots, maybe a backdoor flush/lowish draw fold, and you can charge all the lows. I would pump this flop, raise and cap it if you can. I don't think you are folding all the low draws with a turn raise. Plus the blind on this flop might check the turn, I'd raise while I can.

River is a call for me.