Stop-N-Go with the Nuts

[fsuplayer]

Been trying to incorporate this more into my game, how's it look in this hand.

i thought reraising the flop big would let him get away from too many hands.

Prima $2.5-5.00 blinds $500 max buy in

i (1100) complete after two limpers with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

flop ($20): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i bet $20, UTG +1 limper calls, LP( $480 no real read) makes it $75, i call, limper folds

turn $190:2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

i lead out for $140

comments?

fsuplayer

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
Prima $2.5-5.00 blinds $500 max buy in

i (1100) complete after two limpers with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

flop ($20): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i bet $20, UTG +1 limper calls, LP( $480 no real read) makes it $75, i call, limper folds

[/ QUOTE ]

not really a comment but a question: what do you do if a club comes on the turn?

as far as the flop goes, i'd probably reraise fearing the flush draw. but, i think i have a tendency to play my good hands too aggressively, and thus i win smaller pots. i would like to hear comments about playing the turn when a club hits, because if i were in your position doing the stop-and-go and a club hit the turn, i'd be crying like a little girl (but that's just me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ).

[BK_]

[ QUOTE ]


i thought reraising the flop big would let him get away from too many hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

im not sure i like using a stop and go here.

if hes good: hey may get away from a good hand with your reraise, but he will also be able to see how strong your stop and go is. so vs this player, i like reraise better because of the times the club hits the turn

if he isnt good: he wont fold to your reraise enough or your stop and go. he cant get away from his 2 pair on the flop if you reraise the flop, and he doesnt understand the strength of the stop and go move. so vs this player i think reraising is also better, as its so much easier to get all in if you reraise the flop rather than bet the turn.

thoughts?

[doubleas]

I would've wanted more money in on the flop. Why do you think he raised? Sure, he could have a vulnerable hand and wants to gain information by raising you and he may fold, but he may also have a strong hand or big draw that he would be willing to get in more chips with on the flop.

I'd try building a pot early with this hand forcing him to come along if he did have a nice draw. With the stacks where they are, you'd have a better chance of getting all-in if you reraised on the flop and pushed on the turn.

I'm just a fan of building the pot when I know I'm ahead. If the board pairs or a club shows on the turn, would you change your line?

BTW, I'm generally not a fan of the stop-n-go except for use in tournaments when I have a semi-strong hand in the blinds and am willing to go all-in preflop, but want folding equity by letting the opponent miss the flop if they have a low pair or AK.

Is the basis for the stop-n-go in this situation to lead your opponent to believe that your block-betting?

[AdamBragar]

What do you think he raised with? Either he's drawing or he's got something pretty big, perhaps Q10 or A10 seems reasonable here.

A few problems with the stop and go technique here:

1) It's a risk. There are a lot of scare cards out there. About 17 of them (any club, an ace, a queen or a ten). That would scare me. I'd probably reraise his bet here, but I can definitely see not reraising.

But once you don't reraise...

2) You don't really have much information on his hand, while your stop n' go bet method does give information about your hand. Probably the least scary card in the deck came out. No way he's going to think you hit something by that 2 coming out. So he's got to assume A-x is no good, and two pair is no good.

If you continue slow playing here and check the turn, I'd think he's going to bet a good hand, probably pretty hard putting you on a very live draw. Then you can reraise and take down a nice pot.

If he's got a draw, he'll probably check the turn and then you've got a decision to make on the river on whether to bet or check again. If a scare card comes up, I'd probably check/call.

[coltrane]

fsu,

I think the main thing is, you need to get more money in on the flop.....the whole point of leading out with the nuts on the flop is so exactly what happened happens - you get raised......you're out of position, he's got a hand, reraise the flop (I'm not saying blow him off the hand) and lead out the turn......

[mks]

Simple question...what hands do you expect to call your turn bet that would have folded to a raise on the flop?

[queenhigh]

I think its the wrong time for Stop-N-Go, especially since he limped (making a very strong hand/big draw more likely).

I think the play here is check-raise, hope he's got one of those hands (two-pair, set, or pair+draw) and pushes. If you bet, get raised, and push, he can get away from a set or two pair, and there are tons of bad turn cards that kill your action and/or beat you. A check-raise looks like bottom two, or even just top pair, so there's a good chance he'll come back over the top of you with a strong hand. If he's not that strong, you're probably not winning a big pot anyway, so might as well get as much in/take it down before everything goes to [censored].

[mmcd]

It depends on the player obviously, but i would guess his intention on the turn was to get in a lead/reraise, not get called by a hand that wouldn't have called a flop reraise.

[mks]

I think it's valuable to think about what that turn bet is trying to accomplish (e.g. what types of hands is it targeting?) and then figure out if that thinking is consistent with the decision to not reraise the flop.

My position is they're completely inconsistent, but I'd like to know what fsuplayer was thinking at the time.