Crying call on river or muck it?

#1 12-07-2005, 01:48 PM

This is a hand of minethis past weekend in a 10-handed 6/12 game at the Borgata. I'm doing it from memory too, so I may not get all the preflop 100% accurate, but it will be close.

Hero is in BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop: UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO raises, Button cold calls 2 bets, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (10.5 Small Bets) A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO 3-bets, Button folds, Hero caps, UTG folds, CO calls

I thought I would try to check raise to give flush draws poor drawing odds, but I realize that they were still getting at least 6-1 which leaves them in fine shape. Should I have waited until the turn to check raise?

Turn: (10.5 Big Bets) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, CO calls

River: (12.5 Big Bets) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero vomits in his mouth and....

I would think I am probably beaten, but would calling 1 more bet for a pot with 15.5 Big Bets in it be so horrible?

sean c · #2 12-07-2005, 01:53 PM

Bet that flop! River depends on villian but folding sets heads up is not something i would make a habit of.

#3 12-07-2005, 01:58 PM

I'm pretty sure you're beat too, but I think the pot is too big to fold. I think I would just check-call the river.

Smokey98 · #4 12-07-2005, 02:13 PM

Would you just call the flop bet until seeing the turn? A lot of people will semi-bluff bet with 4 to the flush. The scare card came on the turn so you've got to thing that you're beat here. If you raise and are reraised then fold.

fyodor · #5 12-07-2005, 02:16 PM

I think you have to fold to the river raise. My understanding of the rationale behind betting the 4 flush in the first place is to win one more bet the times he calls with 2 pair and to possibly get him to fold a smaller flush.

When he raises I put you at 20:1 at best in a live game unless he is super laggy. Your odds would be better online but probably still not enough.

sean c · #6 12-07-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Would you just call the flop bet until seeing the turn? A lot of people will semi-bluff bet with 4 to the flush. The scare card came on the turn so you've got to thing that you're beat here. If you raise and are reraised then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smokey i would have capped the flop given the chance. Folding this hand any time before the river would be a mistake.

SNOWBALL138 · #7 12-07-2005, 02:45 PM

your hand is good less than 1/17 times on the river. don't think about it. just fold and move on.

BWebb · #8 12-07-2005, 02:47 PM

This is the second hand I've seen today where the player checkraised their monster in a large, multiway pot because of a flush draw on board. You will NEVER get a flushdraw to fold on the flop in a multiway pot and you can NEVER make it incorrect for them to call, even if you checkraise. So stop trying it. [/rant]

Call the river.

droolie · #9 12-07-2005, 02:59 PM

Bet that flop homie. No need to protect when you have so much value to extract. This hand went in a terrible direction for you so protection might seem correct but you want as much money going in this pot as possible as your set has a HUGE equity edge against the entire field. This runner runner flush thing will happen every once in a while but usually you should just charge the max for fools to chase their slim chance of drawing out on you. And no you'll never get a flopped flush draw to fold before the river so don't bother trying, just make them pay. Betting and hoping the pfr raiser will raise so you trap the field who already paid once for a double bet is the money play here.

Your river action is read dependent. If you can reliably fold to a raise bet/ fold. If you can't check call. If the guy is psycho aggro bet/call.

crunchy1 · #10 12-07-2005, 03:03 PM

Bet the flop and pray that CO raises so you can 3-bet.

You should be going into the flop with two thoughts (A) No one is going to fold and (B) Since no one is going to fold and there are 4-6 players that will be contributing bets to the pot where I likely have the best hand - I'm going to do everything I can to increase the size of the pot further hoping that my hand holds up.

Your river action is really dependant on a read. Standard online line would probably be to bet/fold. Since this was LIVE - and your reads should be better - I think you could make a case for bet/folding, check/calling or even check/folding.