Jacks in the SB. Pain and suffering

rewt75 · #1 11-24-2004, 04:30 AM

only have played about 25 hands with MP2. VPIP at 14%, PFR 3.7%, AggTot 4

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 raises, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (13.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, CO folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

River: (17.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.25 BB

My intention was to keep as many of these people in the pot as possible on the flop, then C/R the turn. Fortunately someone raised ahead of me so I...well I inhaled a fresh batch of seawater in through my gills and called. I'm normally aggressive and would've had no problem 3-betting, but I was trying to be sneaky.

How bad is the river bet/call?

Vaftrudner · #2 11-24-2004, 05:19 AM

I think you can pump the flop here, large pot, many bets in, no reason to slowplay it. Since you didn't if you lead the turn you might be able to "trap" utg+1 for one bet, and also mp2 might raise it again, so that could be an option. Check-raise is ok though. River I think you have to bet because QQ or KK are as likely as AA. Looks like you're beaten most of the time but to lay down your hand for one more bet you need to be *very* sure you're beaten...

/v

Rah · #3 11-24-2004, 07:24 AM

It's possible that you were playing against me in that flop (or maybe not).
This is a hand were many people slowplay. I think that's a huge mistake. First of all, these players will call you down anyhow. Secondly, when there are possible straight draws (this is low limit) you should never allow people to draw cheaply on you.

Webster · #4 11-24-2004, 08:18 AM

Everything looks fine until the turn. I would have bet instead of CRing. MP2 PROBEBLY woul have called anyway with his gutshot and overcard so the CR while not what I would do did not hurt you.

BUT - the river - opps. I think to many people get to aggressive on the river.

1. you bet - the guy missed his hand and folds - you get nothing

2. you bet - the guy has the hand and raises - you lose 1 bet

You can't win with betting.

secada · #5 11-24-2004, 12:50 PM

I think not betting the flop here is a mistake. With a set here, bet and call the raises. Then Check-Raise the turn if you want.

I'd be surprised if MP2 didn't have two big hearts, including the Ace. Still, I suck it up and bet/call the river.

nolanfan34 · #6 11-24-2004, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think not betting the flop here is a mistake. With a set here, bet and call the raises. Then Check-Raise the turn if you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this line, bet the flop. With 6 people in the hand, and a two-tone flop, you need to give people a chance to fold. This isn't a flop where you can afford to take a free card or slowplay.

Best case scenario, if you bet out, MP2 will raise, forcing the CO and button to call two-cold, and you'll have a chance to 3-bet and trap the rest of the field.

I'd also bet the turn. I don't want to see AK or AQ get a free shot at the river if they check behind you. Your C/R worked out though.

I think the river isn't terrible. I think you have to call it down, in case MP2 is making a move with KK or QQ and is betting the scare card, but more likely I'd expect to see AK or AQ here. I probably would have wimped into a check/call on the river.

rewt75 · #7 11-24-2004, 03:18 PM

Yeah the more I think about it and read the responses, the more I realize how badly I played it.

MP2 turned over AJo and the pot laughed at me as it slid over to MP2. Rah was that you? I figured it was a solid player for .5/1 standards as he raised the flop bet with TPTK.

MagicRat · #8 11-24-2004, 03:24 PM

I think there were two mistakes on the flop:

1) Not betting out. With you the final raiser pre-flop it's quite possible that no $$ at all may go in on that betting round when you check (I know I'd assume you're looking to check-raise).

2) Once it's re-raised back to you I'd raise again. You're not going to lose anybody at that point in the hand and you've got the best hand so get your $$ in.

Agree or disagree with #2 anyone??