Do you bet this river?

TripleH68 · #1 10-07-2004, 01:38 PM

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

BB has bet out with middle pair and draws in a relatively tight game. SB is passive.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero ???

 Comments on the river and the path to this river appreciated.

jrobb83 · #2 10-07-2004, 01:40 PM

Raise this before the flop.

I would bet the river. You can very safely fold to a raise, and will get called be middle pairs enough to make this a profitable value bet.

Alobar · #3 10-07-2004, 01:42 PM

raise this preflop

fold to the flop bet. Youve got nothing but overcards on a draw laden board. BBs bet means more than likely he has something or a draw, so hes there till the river, so you arnt buying the pot. You are trying to make a fancy play in a small pot. Let this one go.

bet the river, fold to a raise

InchoateHand · #4 10-07-2004, 01:44 PM

If you are good, will they both call? Will you be good 33% of the time if the former is true? What sort of reads do you have on them.

I'm interested by your flop raise on a reasonably coordinated board with just the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Did table conditions grant this? Do you usually raise your overcards here?

When SB calls two cold on the flop, but doesn't bet out, its pretty obvious he has a draw. BB could be anything. If these are thinking opponents, they may well put you on a flush draw--I would have, and thus call with weak holdings like a pair of sixes, etc. on the river.

I think I would check behind here, or bet if you can confidently fold to a raise from these opponents.

I think play here is almost entirely read dependent, but I am unpersuaded by your flop move.

pokerkai · #5 10-07-2004, 01:47 PM

Bet the river, fold to the checkraise

garyc8 · #6 10-07-2004, 01:52 PM

Raise this pre-flop w/ only 1 in ahead of you.

Raise on the flop hoping to see river free if you miss the turn is fine.

Bet on the turn in necessary. No free cards on a draw scary board.

If BB would never check-raise bluff the scary river card, then go ahead and value bet since you can safely fold to a raise. If you cannot fold to a raise, I would take the free showdown.

bisonbison · #7 10-07-2004, 01:54 PM

You know what's wierd? Sometimes I check and sometimes I bet and call, but I never bet and fold here. God I hate folding.

secada · #8 10-07-2004, 02:58 PM

I raise PF. This changes the whole dynamic of the hand. With KQ I fold or raise the flop, depending on my mood.

I like betting the river. If I get check-raised I call in approximately one second.

Yesterday I was 3 to 4 tabling for several hours to clear Party's last bonus and I must have been check-raised 5 or 6 times by someone with a worse hand on the river in situations similar to this. Sure, sometimes he'll have a straight or even a trashy 2-pair but they will call with worse hands enough to make up for it IMHO.
-secada

dejableu · #9 10-07-2004, 03:21 PM

When they call they will have worse hands fairly often. However, when they check-raise you, they will almost always have two pair or better (generally the straight). You should not be calling that raise in one second...

dejableu · #10 10-07-2004, 03:26 PM

I check behind. True, the spade draw missed, but a 7 would definitely be looking to pop you with a check-raise after your raise on the flop and bet on the turn. Since I agree with Bison in that it sucks to lay down top pair here, I'm happy to lose a bet (or possibly two) rather than get socked with a check-raise and a very uncomfortable decision.