His flop check-raise all-in means I'm beat?

[AZnuts]

$5+1 R+A, a long way to go, top 100 pays, we're at 350.

I should have raised a lot more preflop. But now what on the flop - am I compelled to commit a majority of my stack to see it through?

UTG did just take two consecutive bad beats; he could be tilting a bit.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (10 handed) converter

UTG (t6930)
UTG+1 (t9147)
UTG+2 (t5830)
MP1 (t5660)
MP2 (t6046)
MP3 (t5832)
CO (t6494)
Hero (t8932)
SB (t4025)
BB (t5690)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t300, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1000</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t700, UTG calls t700.

Flop: (t3150) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1500</font>, BB folds, UTG raises all-in [T5930], <font color="red">Hero??? </font>

[iggy]

I think this reeks of a flush draw. But you might certainly be beat already.

[fnurt]

Conceivably UTG could be on a draw here; but if you add up the number of times you are ahead and the number of times you are drawing to 2 outs, I suspect this will be a pretty clear fold.

I think this type of button raise is overused. With 88 you're hardly a big favorite over a UTG limper; keep the pot small and see what comes out. If UTG is steaming, that makes him even less likely to fold to your raise.

[Juff]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this reeks of a flush draw. But you might certainly be beat already.

[/ QUOTE ]

[AZnuts]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this type of button raise is overused . . . keep the pot small and see what comes out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought briefly about just calling preflop, but I've been abused on this board for not being aggressive enough, so I raised it in position.

After the flop checks, I was almost certain I would take down the pot with a continuation bet.

The more I think, other than flopping a set, I don't think I can win this pot without the preflop raise even if I am best. If someone had bet into that same flop after I only called, what would I do? I'd have no idea where I was.

[fnurt]

That's probably true, but the fact is, this is an awful flop for 88 against two opponents, and God doesn't necessarily intend for you to win every hand.

[AZnuts]

[ QUOTE ]
this is an awful flop for 88 against two opponents, and God doesn't necessarily intend for you to win every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, on the flop I can let this go. But pre-flop, just calling on the button with one limper in front seems very weak at this stage of the tourney with BB300. My 88 has to best right? Unless he limped with QQ-AA.

[fnurt]

Your 88 may rate to be "best" but not by a lot. My point is that you serve yourself better by keeping the pot size small than by building a big pot when you have a tiny edge. If you felt there was a good chance to push the limper off his hand, great, but the fact that he's UTG and the fact that he may be steaming make that less likely. I'm not saying you made an awful play, but I think you hurt your survival chances more than you realize by building big pots.

It's a pretty clear fold. Litterally the only thing you beat is air. What to do if you call preflop? Fold: it's a simple, no set no bet. But I really like to raise in this spot, unless you've noticed that the limper defends often. Maybe raise a little bit more though, you definately don't want a call. After the flop, cont bet fold, just like you did.

The eights are obviously only margianlly ahead here preflop, but thats not at all the issue. You have three chances to win some money here: preflop, on the flop with a cont bet, and you can double up if you hit a set. So unless he's a calling station, or loves to limp aces or kings early, I'd bet every time here.

[benkahuna]

Think tight aggressive, not just aggressive. Two overcards looks like a good time to leave the swamp. A hurricane along the way to the river is likely enough.