$11: two pair, 2nd hand

liucipher · #1 11-16-2005, 06:35 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t790)
Hero (t810)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 6 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t42.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks.

Turn: (t42.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 15, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises to 60, UTG+1 reraises to 385, Hero ??

bjb23 · #2 11-16-2005, 06:39 PM

i bet this flop 100 percent of the time. your hand is definitely not good enough to slowplay, especially with two broadways on the board.

liucipher · #3 11-16-2005, 06:41 PM

Yeah I regret that and will keep that in mind next time.

What to do on the turn though? Higher two pair/straight/pair of aces/draw?

cleinen · #4 11-16-2005, 06:47 PM

The turn was made alot tougher due to your play on the flop. I think you may have to dump it to that reraise your hand just isn't strong enough. There are so many cards that can come on the river that destroy your hand.

bluefeet · #5 11-16-2005, 06:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (t42.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 15, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises to 60, UTG+1 reraises to 385, Hero ??

[/ QUOTE ]

My amatuer opinion: you are officially behind on this turn.

He has a hand strong enough to give you both the turn (act I) - less likely a blatant act of aggression/punishment for you raising HIS cheap river card (act II).

I think this would fit into the "good fold" category.

liucipher · #6 11-16-2005, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many cards that can come on the river that destroy your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was going to push or fold. I'm confused - doesn't this imply I'm against a drawing hand in which case I should push?

cleinen · #7 11-16-2005, 06:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was going to push or fold. I'm confused - doesn't this imply I'm against a drawing hand in which case I should push?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't like putting my tourney on the line with J2 2 pair. You have very little invested so far and alot of poker to play yet. You just need to let it go.

#8 11-16-2005, 06:57 PM

I'd pot bet flop. Great hit for the discounted entry on SB, but not strong enough to be slow.
As played, on turn after slowplaying it, you got a bite, so I'd push him allin. If he was slowplaying AA, you deserve to die. If he had A2, you deserve to die. If he was slow playing JJ or QQ, you were dead already. If he has two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s you gotta keep him from drawing if possible.

A question for those correcting me, what if you potbet that flop, and get one caller? Then what when the A hits? I would guess bet again, but fold to rr (had a pair, and hit his A?). Or if you get a raiser on the flop potbet? That seems tougher to me because QJ seems possible, or set of ducks. call it on down, or do you have to bet into that turn 2nd [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? These bottom 2-pr situations really bug me, so I hope liucipher gets some responses.

liucipher · #9 11-16-2005, 06:59 PM

As always you are correct.

He held AQ. I was fairly surprised.

I've got a looooooong way to go . . .

#10 11-16-2005, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd pot bet flop. Great hit for the discounted entry on SB, but not strong enough to be slow.
As played, on turn after slowplaying it, you got a bite, so I'd push him allin. If he was slowplaying AA, you deserve to die. If he had A2, you deserve to die. If he was slow playing JJ or QQ, you were dead already. If he has two [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s you gotta keep him from drawing if possible.

A question for those correcting me, what if you potbet that flop, and get one caller? Then what when the A hits? I would guess bet again, but fold to rr (had a pair, and hit his A?). Or if you get a raiser on the flop potbet? That seems tougher to me because QJ seems possible, or set of ducks. call it on down, or do you have to bet into that turn 2nd [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? These bottom 2-pr situations really bug me, so I hope liucipher gets some responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

After I flop bet, and get raised... I'm outta there. As it's still so early on, and without reads only the biggest donks would raise here without a stronger two pair or better, IMO.

If I get flat-called, and the A hits the turn... I think I slow right down, I check here, and call a reasonable bet. Helps maintain the pot-size as I don't want to go broke with this hand, and want as cheaper showdown as possible. As soon as I am shown any real strength, I'm straight out.

Note here, UTG+1 flat called the initial bet, and then woke up when the raised. This looks to me like he was slowplaying something far stronger than your bottom 2.